BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » "My Elementary Review:"

Mary Me · January 13, 2013 12:47 pm

Right. I'm sorry about the misunderstanding.
But I have to mention, in the meantime I learned a bit about the canon.
The difference between a good adaptation and a good series shouldn't be that great, I suppose.

SusiGo · January 13, 2013 12:48 pm

I've read the whole canon but I still think that something may be said about the quality of both adaptations without knowing the stories. For me there are two core elements that explain the attraction of the Holmes universe - his brilliant deductive mind and the friendship between him and Watson. BBC Sherlock is true to both elements and you don't have to know the canon to understand this. Then you get another show in which the special chemistry between the characters is missing and in which the deductions maybe are not as brilliant as in the BBC film so you will be disappointed. (I reserve a final judgment until I have watched more than just one episode. After all it started only last week).

But apart from that I think that people who haven't read the stories probably have quite a good idea of what it is all about. After all, he's one of the most well-known fictional characters of all time - if not the best known.

kazza474 · January 13, 2013 1:01 pm

Well, yes of course, who needs the canon; quite superfluous really. The main thing is what you see on screen and whether that pleases your eye, everything else is just elementary really.

Mattlocked · January 13, 2013 1:09 pm

*sigh* I have the feeling I have to quote myself. Although I too have the feeling, it won't help. Better I go back fangirling now.

Mattlocked wrote:
Back once again to the canon-theme.
I didn't read it either, YET. ...............
While I'm reading here I get more and more curious what's all about the canon.............
....................
I agree that it must be an enrichment to get to know the canon, and I'm really looking forward to it................

Last edited by Mattlocked (January 13, 2013 1:11 pm)

kazza474 · January 13, 2013 1:16 pm

Oh please don't sigh for my benefit.
I'm just finding it rather amusing but pointless. I'm basically asking a group of people who spend countless hours a day posting fangirl posts about one show, to give another show of a similar genre a decent chance. It's not going to happen so I will leave it there. I'll contain my replies to the people who have watched & see some merit in the show.
After all, we are comparing apples & apple pie really.

Mattlocked · January 13, 2013 1:33 pm

kazza474 wrote:
........... I'm basically asking a group of people who spend countless hours a day posting fangirl posts about one show, to give another show of a similar genre a decent chance. It's not going to happen so I will leave it there.

Oh, so I wasn't meant. Just got it wrong. So finally I can calm down.

SusiGo · January 13, 2013 4:18 pm

I agree with you, Swanpride. To me it seems much more honest to approach it the House way - different names, alternate universe (as they say in fanfic), but keep some important aspects like Sherlock's brilliance and the relationship to Watson/Wilson. However, IF you use the names that are so well-known you should stay closer to your source - the canon of ACD. That's what's so wonderful about Moftiss and what in my eyes is lacking in Elementary.
Apart from that I'm ready to give it another try. As a TV show it's not so bad after all.

Harriet · January 13, 2013 4:56 pm

Agree with both of you, Swanpride and Susi.

I think I can tell a good show from a bad one. Elementary is really not bad. But not interesting enough to me. Why should I watch more tv then? Just like what you call the canon. There are many more interesting books and a few tv shows around. And I rather spend my time on them.
Actually, I started with BBC Sherlock in spite of the canon background. To me, this show is an enormous improvement.

There is no need to divide the world into black and white, or to depreciate anybody here. We are all fans, whatever decision we make about the canon. If you wish to read it and enjoy, fine. If you don't, fine as well.

Last edited by Harriet (January 13, 2013 5:07 pm)

ancientsgate · January 14, 2013 2:40 am

Mattlocked wrote:
Actually I wouldn't have watched Elementary if it wouldn't be connected to Sherlock Holmes. I don't watch a lot of US crime series, as most of them are not really interesting to me.
(Feel free to recommend one or two!

Hawaii 5-0 is pretty good. Lots and lots of Oahu scenery-- the entire show is filmed there-- and the men make for some pretty good scenery as well, lol.

ancientsgate · January 14, 2013 3:01 am

Mary Me wrote:
'Sherlock' is already modernised, so Elementary was actually not necessary.

Very few Americans know a) anything about ACD's original Sherlock; we don't read the stories in school, for instance, or b) have seen the BBC incarnation of Sherlock in its modern setting. So CBS decided to jump into the fray and adapt the idea of a Brit Sherlock (amateur detective who is into deducing facts about his cases, working alongside the police, a Watson in his life both personally and as an assistant in his sleuthing), stuck into an American setting (New York City), with a Watson who is not only an American but a female. Kudos to them for originality, even though it might not all set well with us who are more familiar with either original canon or the BBC canon. CBS is advertising Elementary as the "# 1 new show of the season" just in the last week or two, so... guess it's doing okay on its home turf.

ancientsgate · January 14, 2013 3:08 am

SusiGo wrote:
But apart from that I think that people who haven't read the stories probably have quite a good idea of what it is all about. After all, he's one of the most well-known fictional characters of all time - if not the best known.

Not in the US he isn't. We know some Sherlock stereotypes-- the deerstalker hat, the pipe, the sleuthing, the "elementary, my dear Watson", the working friendship/relationship between Sherlock and Watson, but to my knowledge, that's it. Naturally some Americans are more familiar with the actual original stories-- perhaps those who studied British lit in college, but ACD and his works are not taught and studied in American high schools, except in the most perfunctory ways. Our high school English classes' reading assignments are almost all from American literature, for obvious reasons.

Mary Me · January 14, 2013 7:23 am

ancientsgate wrote:
CBS is advertising Elementary as the "# 1 new show of the season" just in the last week or two, so... guess it's doing okay on its home turf.

By the way, there is another proof for Sherlock being the better adaptation: Its setting is a) London and b) Watson is a male. And I know this without knowing the canon.

Harriet · January 14, 2013 8:20 am

Mary Me wrote:
By the way, there is another proof for Sherlock being the better adaptation: Its setting is a) London and b) Watson is a male.

I don't see how this could influence the quality of a show?

Mary Me · January 14, 2013 8:46 am

Harriet wrote:
Mary Me wrote:
By the way, there is another proof for Sherlock being the better adaptation: Its setting is a) London and b) Watson is a male.
I don't see how this could influence the quality of a show?

I wasn't referring to the quality of this show. I was just explaining why 'Sherlock' stays closer to the canon.

Harriet · January 14, 2013 9:10 am

Well, you said "better", that's why

I have no problems with a female Watson (or with New York or anything), but with what they make out of it.
So besides of that, I mostly agree with Swanpride again.

kazza474 · January 15, 2013 2:17 am

Swanpride wrote:
kazza: I can only speak for myself, but I gave the show a change, I watched the pilot, and my conclusion was: I have seen Monk, I watch Psych and from time to time "The Mentalist", and I don't really need or want another show which feels, honestly, mostly like Castle...and Castle isn't even a Holmes-adaptation. I would never say it is a bad show, it really isn't, but it is neither creative, nor are the characters compelling, nor is it a good adaptation of the canon it claims to be based on.

I think those of us who are willing to give it a chance (and yes initially I was NOT one of them, on principle) all agree that the use of the names is a bit hard to swallow.
Yet we appear to agree as a crime drama it holds its own within that field. I would challenge you to watch the other episodes with an open mind; forget BBC Sherlock (after all it is just another adaptation) Very hard to judge creativity on one show wouldn't you say?

I cannot agree with this objection you have:

I don't see "Sherlock Holmes" as a brat, who isn't able to take care of his own life, but instead is living off his fathers money and is complaining about him on top of it. I don't see "John Watson" as some sort of emo-doctor, who isn't ready to face his own past, and acts like some sort of babysitter.

Why not? BBC adapted Sherlock Holmes to be younger, less socially skilled and more abrupt than the original so why can't someone else change the character around? Especially as he is younger than canon Holmes also. Frankly the character traits he has been given in this adaptation are just another extrapolation on the updating methods.

ancientsgate · January 15, 2013 1:37 pm

Swanpride wrote:
.....And no, I don't think that it is hard to judge creativity on a show.... I won't watch any additional episodes. I watched the pilot. The pilot failed to impress me. There was nothing, really nothing, I could latch on. ....

I agree; it's not hard for someone to judge for themselves about whether something is creative or not, or whether or not they're interested in a TV show, movie, artwork, music, whatever kind of creativity is under scrutiny. That's what makes a horse race, as they say-- everyone likes something different, and they get to say what they will watch, what they will spend their money on, etc.

Funny you mentioned the bees being interesting during the pilot. We haven't seen them or heard them alluded to since (I am currently two episodes behind, so maybe they were buzzing around recently, no idea.) Not sure if they all flew away for a better hive on someone else's rooftop or what. *g*

I think the show has improved somewhat since the early episodes. The guy who plays Sherlock has relaxed a little bit and doesn't come across quite as intense as before-- he doesn't seem to be clenching his teeth all the time, and sometimes there's a hint of humor around his mouth and in what he chooses to say. A bit. I think the showrunners and writers of Elementary are still feeling their way around and through their subject matter-- I have found this a common thing on American TV, where something jumps onto the air and only after many episodes does the premise gel and the characters find their footing.

SusiGo · January 15, 2013 1:57 pm

I'll give it another go on Thursday.

ancientsgate · January 15, 2013 2:18 pm

SusiGo wrote:
I'll give it another go on Thursday.

Good for you! Maybe you'll be pleasantly surprised, or maybe you'll just decide that you must be a gluton for punishment, lol. Let us know what you think, if you want to. I always wonder if people will change their minds about something they've disliked in the past, and if they do, why.

SusiGo · January 15, 2013 2:38 pm

Of course I'll do that. It's not that I wasn't very disappointed because it turned out to be quite what I had expected. After all I had read about it here and elsewhere.
But to be honest, I'd like to be able to like it, at least a little bit, so it could help me while waiting for series 3. I'm ready to give them the benefit of the doubt once again. (I nearly typed the Benedict of the doubt).