BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » The Red-headed League (all about red-heads)

Davina · September 5, 2012 1:13 pm

New thread. For those who want to discuss the advantages/disadvantages/genetics/discrimination etc. etc. associated with having red/auburn/ginger hair.

The wonders of MC1R.

Last edited by Davina (September 5, 2012 1:41 pm)

kazza474 · September 5, 2012 1:50 pm

We call them 'Ranga' here - Red Kangaroos - Kangaroos - Rangas
Gotta say though, the Red Kangaroo is the most volatile & biggest; look them up on Google.... won't catch me tangling with one in the wild.

Banbha · September 5, 2012 2:35 pm

What I'd originally posted in another thread:

I was recently reading an article about redheads. Basically, the science of ancestry (genetic incidence) and history. Much of the history part was how redheads were perceived--basically as being from the devil--and how they're perceived today. I read that The UK and Ireland have the highest percentages and that there is also some big discrimination of redheads. An example given in the article was a person who was stabbed in the back because they had red hair and...there were other examples but I can't remember them. My question is what is the perception (from your perspective), and why is it the case? I'm very curious. by the way, if you weren't aware, I have loads of red, curly hair on my head. I look like Merida from "Brave" when my hair is down.

Ranga...I have never heard of that. I don't know if I like that or ginger more. I've heard that "ginger" isn't usually a term of endearment (and maybe ranga isn't either), but I like them. And anyway, I'll bet I fit with much of the stereotype, so whatever.

Davina · September 5, 2012 3:24 pm

Ginger here often gets shortened to 'Ging' with a hard G at the beginning and end. Sometimes they get called 'carrot-top' and people definitely feel it is ok to say pejorative things to red-heads that they wouldn't necessarily dream of saying to someone say of another ethnic group.

Since the gene for red-hair is recessive it has to be on both the mother's and father's side for a child to be born red-headed. I am not red-headed but both my children are.

It is certainly more common in people with Scottish and Irish ancestry. I am going to do a bit more research on this.I've also come across some interesting stuff on red-heads' sensitivity to pain which I am going to try to gather into one posting.

sherlockskitty · September 5, 2012 10:05 pm

And Doctor who wants to be Ginger!!! I've tried making my hair the red color of Sarah, the Duchess Of York, but my hairstylist can't do it. I LOVE that color and I think it would look good on me.

Banbha · September 6, 2012 12:26 am

Davina wrote:
Ginger here often gets shortened to 'Ging' with a hard G at the beginning and end. Sometimes they get called 'carrot-top' and people definitely feel it is ok to say pejorative things to red-heads that they wouldn't necessarily dream of saying to someone say of another ethnic group.

Since the gene for red-hair is recessive it has to be on both the mother's and father's side for a child to be born red-headed. I am not red-headed but both my children are.

It is certainly more common in people with Scottish and Irish ancestry. I am going to do a bit more research on this.I've also come across some interesting stuff on red-heads' sensitivity to pain which I am going to try to gather into one posting.

Both of my parents have brown hair as well as my grandparents and siblings. I'm Scottish and a little Irish and, from what my family says, the last redhead was my Scottish great-great grandmother. I've read the studies about genetics, sensitivity to pain, and even the tendency to be more impulsive or moody (because of our levels of dopamine). Very interesting. I can tell you from my own experience that it does take a lot more anesthetic for me than for the average person. It drives my dentist crazy. And my instructors in nursing school (especially the ones who are women's health practitioners) told us to watch redheads especially closely after delivery because they tend to have more trouble with bleeding than others do.

Banbha · September 6, 2012 12:27 am

Banbha wrote:
Davina wrote:
Ginger here often gets shortened to 'Ging' with a hard G at the beginning and end. Sometimes they get called 'carrot-top' and people definitely feel it is ok to say pejorative things to red-heads that they wouldn't necessarily dream of saying to someone say of another ethnic group.

Since the gene for red-hair is recessive it has to be on both the mother's and father's side for a child to be born red-headed. I am not red-headed but both my children are.

It is certainly more common in people with Scottish and Irish ancestry. I am going to do a bit more research on this.I've also come across some interesting stuff on red-heads' sensitivity to pain which I am going to try to gather into one posting.

Both of my parents have brown hair as well as my grandparents and siblings. I'm mostly Scottish and a little Irish and, from what my family says, the last redhead was my Scottish great-great grandmother. I've read the studies about genetics, sensitivity to pain, and even the tendency to be more impulsive or moody (because of our levels of dopamine). Very interesting. I can tell you from my own experience that it does take a lot more anesthetic for me than for the average person. It drives my dentist crazy. And my instructors in nursing school (especially the ones who are women's health practitioners) told us to watch redheads especially closely after delivery because they tend to have more trouble with bleeding than others do.

Davina · September 6, 2012 1:11 pm

In reference to what Kazza wrote:

www.ranga.net.au/

Bit more research on the genetic/medical type side of things:

www.sciencenordic.com/redheads-feel-different-kind-pain

Redheads are according to research/studies:
1. More sensitive to cold
2. Less responsive to under the skin anaesthetics
3. Suffer more from toothaches and are more frightened of the dentist
4. At greater risk of developing sclerosis and endometriosis

There is some evidence that they are more prone to illness. They tend to lack Vitamin D but this may be because they prefer to keep out of the sun or their ability to absorb Vitamin D is less efficient (further studies needed).
Apparently a recent study has shown that they are NOT prone to bleed more. They are less sensitive to pain in the skin. One study did show a higher rate of bruising in redheads.

www.chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/05/redheads-are-tougher-than-the-rest-of-us-research-finds/

Last edited by Davina (September 6, 2012 1:15 pm)

LoveBug54 · September 6, 2012 5:16 pm

I'd like to take this opportunity to mention that some of us CHOOSE to be ginger! I've been proudly ginger for several years now, after my formerly chestnut hair decided to develop a "silver lining." I have the complexion for it -- green eyes, pale skin, ruddy cheeks -- so why not?

Oh, and my cat is ginger, too. Just sayin'.

Last edited by LoveBug54 (September 6, 2012 5:17 pm)

Banbha · September 7, 2012 1:38 pm

Davina wrote:
In reference to what Kazza wrote:

www.ranga.net.au/

Bit more research on the genetic/medical type side of things:

www.sciencenordic.com/redheads-feel-different-kind-pain

Redheads are according to research/studies:
1. More sensitive to cold
2. Less responsive to under the skin anaesthetics
3. Suffer more from toothaches and are more frightened of the dentist
4. At greater risk of developing sclerosis and endometriosis

There is some evidence that they are more prone to illness. They tend to lack Vitamin D but this may be because they prefer to keep out of the sun or their ability to absorb Vitamin D is less efficient (further studies needed).
Apparently a recent study has shown that they are NOT prone to bleed more. They are less sensitive to pain in the skin. One study did show a higher rate of bruising in redheads.

www.chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/05/redheads-are-tougher-than-the-rest-of-us-research-finds/

I do bruise easily. I come home from work with bruises (sometimes quite large) and I can't imagine where they came from. Just randomly bumped into something, I guess.

I can personally attest to that whole dentist thing! I think the anesthetic thing contributes to fear of dentists. Mine is great, but I'll bet there are dentists out there who don't want to wait for extra meds to kick in, you know? They'll just move forward. I had an endodontist do this. Even under nitrous oxide and with anesthetic, I remember feeling a lot of pain.

Davina · September 8, 2012 7:04 am

Now I'm wondering whether you actually have to have red hair for the bruising thing. Would it still apply if you had the recessive gene but didn't have red hair. I don't know enough about genetics to work this out.

kazza474 · September 8, 2012 9:33 am

Davina · September 8, 2012 11:39 am

? Speechless Kazza! Lol too late! It did! And my daughter was saying how much she hates the cold.

Last edited by Davina (September 8, 2012 11:41 am)

Lestrade · September 8, 2012 12:21 pm

LoveBug54 wrote:
I'd like to take this opportunity to mention that some of us CHOOSE to be ginger! I've been proudly ginger for several years now, ...

Same here. From a very early age on I have been jealous of people who are naturally red-haired. So as soon as I could, I started going auburn. (I used to call it "red", then thought "ginger" was the proper way to call it, but was corrected by a British friend telling me that "ginger" had a very negative connotation and I should always describe myself as "auburn").

I do not get the anti-red-head sentiments at all.

I think that kid in that pic is adorable and I find the hate expressed in the captions hurtful, tasteless and appalling.

kazza474 · September 8, 2012 12:38 pm

Good grief! There's no hate in the caption whatsoever!!!

There are far worse things in the world that are hate fuelled, this is just a form of humour in an adult setting.

Davina · September 8, 2012 1:09 pm

I think the anti-redhead sentiments are due to the fact that it is a rarity and people with red hair stand out partly because of their comparative rarity and because it is so bright. That said my kids are Happy with their red hair. My daughter went through a phase of dying it different colours but here that is not exactly uncommon for girls with any colour hair. Now she is back to being her natural, very red hair. (Though she is now taking about having it 'dip-dyed'. Whatever that might be). She is always getting complements for her hair colouring although when she was little she was a bit freaked out by Chinese people, in Canada, touching her hair when we were in a lift (elevator).

Mattlocked · September 8, 2012 1:19 pm

I don't know if kids at school still have problems when they have red hair. I remember red-heads in school; it was not so nice being 6,7,8... Other kids were teasing them a lot.

But later with 16 they (girls) just were adorable and all the boys ran after them. I think because it's seldom and special and gives them a cheeky look.
Boys could have bigger problems than girls though...

kazza474 · September 8, 2012 1:35 pm

Oh we love our Red Heads here; that's why we call them Rangas. Even our Prime Minister is a Ranga!

And we nick name most men with red hair "Bluey".

Pure Aussie logic.

Lestrade · September 8, 2012 3:13 pm

How is "Ginger kids - Help find a cure" not offensive?
It's like saying "all brown-eyed people are liars" or "all blondes are stupid".

I don't doubt you meant it as a joke and didn't want to offend. However, I've known quite a lot of kids who suffered/are suffering a lot because of remarks like that one. Every joke gets a lot less funny when you are at the receiving end. Even in an adult setting.

LoveBug54 · September 8, 2012 10:02 pm

This discussion reminded me of a skit from Catherine Tate: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_DVHUEjnuU