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September 3, 2012 9:21 pm  #1


Why does the little girl scream? Why mercury?

This has been mentioned in passing in other threads but shall we consider this...why does the little girl scream when Sherlock enters the room in the hospital? Let's test out some ideas shall we? Was this all part of Moriarty's plan? If it wasn't it was certainly fortuitous for him wasn't it.

Also why did Moriarty decide upon mercury as the method of poisoning the children? Why poison them?


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September 3, 2012 11:46 pm  #2


Re: Why does the little girl scream? Why mercury?

Okay, I haven't really followed all the discussions about this specific topic, but anyway...

I think this was definitely part of Moriarty's plan. Of course he couldn't really know whether the girl would scream at Sherlock's sight or not, but it fits so perfectly into his scheme of making Sherlock the suspect that I doubt that it wasn't planned.
Okay, why did she scream? She was obviously terrified and it obviously had something to do with Sherlock. So, let's think. This girl has been kidnapped by some scary guys, brought to a scary place and then had to fear for her own and her brother's (?) life because of the effects of mercury-poisoning. This is enough to traumatize a child, the girl wouldn't really need any other reason to scream at random people. But because this is of importance for the plot she did not just scream for no reason. There are many possiblities to make the kids afraid of Sherlock - show them a picture/video clip of him and be like "that guy - he arranged for you to be kidnapped. He's the bad guy", for example. Or one of the kidnappers could just have been wearing the same coat as Sherlock... or just any dark coat at all... that would have been enough to remind the girl of her kidnappers and scare her.

Moriarty didn't want to kill the children, he wanted them to be found to make Sherlock look like the bad guy. He knew he gave him enough clues to sort this out. Mercury poisoning because of the candy wrappers would kill the kids very slowly, allowing the police enough time to find and save them. I don't know about the mercury... maybe it is some reference to some fairy tale or something? We know Moriarty loves those.
Why poison them at all? Well, I think to make the whole situation more serious. Then Sherlock wouldn't "just" be responsible for the kidnapping - no, he would also have almost killed them.
And also Moriarty is bonkers. 

 

September 4, 2012 6:32 am  #3


Re: Why does the little girl scream? Why mercury?

Assuming it was part of the plan - did Moriarty also reckon that someone from the Yard, in this case Donovan, would suspect that Sherlock was involved? After all things only got started after Donovan and Anderson had told Lestrade about their suspicions. I suppose Moriarty was a bit lucky as well.

Sammy, I like your idea about the video or the photos shown to the children because then we wouldn't need the face mask, a theory I've never really liked. Maybe he made a video using footage of Sherlock like he did in the cab and used it to frighten the children.

As for the mercury, I'll have to give it some thought.


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September 4, 2012 7:11 am  #4


Re: Why does the little girl scream? Why mercury?

I don't know much about mercury poisoning. I know that, among other things, it causes cognitive disturbance as well as impaired sight and hearing. Sherlock himself is quite an imposing figure, especially to a 7 year old: he's tall, he has that hair, he has very distinct (slightly peculiar) features, and that coat. If the children were indeed under the effects of mercury poisoning, couldn't the resulting confusion allow Moriarty some freedom to play with perceptions? Maybe introduce a tall, imposing henchman wearing a big coat? I would think that, in a confused state, with the element of fear involved, and maybe even using the "shadow at the door" image (the door to the room where the kids slept), it would be pretty easy to put the idea into mind that Sherlock is someone to be feared. What do you think?


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September 4, 2012 7:53 am  #5


Re: Why does the little girl scream? Why mercury?

I feel a sense of deja vu here.
Mercury - delusions- suggestions-simple.

That is all.


____________________________________________________________________________________________
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Sherlock Holmes 28 March 13:08

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--Mark Gatiss

"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I’m not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
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September 4, 2012 8:42 am  #6


Re: Why does the little girl scream? Why mercury?

Hmmm. Maybe I didn't read through every post, but I thought the thread was for our opinion, no?


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In a world of locked rooms, the man with the key is king. And honey...you should see me in a crown...
 

September 4, 2012 9:43 am  #7


Re: Why does the little girl scream? Why mercury?

Yep it sure is, most threads here are for opinions, on matters surrounding Reichenbach we have nothing else till we see the next series.
Is something misleading or unclear?


____________________________________________________________________________________________
Also, please note that sentences can also end in full stops. The exclamation mark can be overused.
Sherlock Holmes 28 March 13:08

Mycroft’s popularity doesn’t surprise me at all. He is, after all, incredibly beautiful, clever and well-dressed. And beautiful. Did I mention that?
--Mark Gatiss

"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I’m not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert McCloskey
 

September 4, 2012 10:54 am  #8


Re: Why does the little girl scream? Why mercury?

I'll offer my two cents. Having the girl cry to plant the seed of suspicion was too necessary a detail in Moriarty's plan for him to leave it to chance. I am guessing that Moriarty the tech/video whiz was able to put together a video montage of Sherlock at Sherlock's less than kind moments. Clips of Sherlock wigging out played to those kids on a video loop would ingrain a Pavlov like response that only needed the real Sherlock to later trigger.


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September 4, 2012 11:04 am  #9


Re: Why does the little girl scream? Why mercury?

I've looked up the symptoms of mercury poisonIng  and delusions and hallucinations are not symptoms. The cognitive disturbance is generally one of impaired cognitive function rather than suggestibility. I suggest it was chosen as it was not going to cause immediate death but would require hospitalisation and treatment; it would guarantee that the children would be hospitalised. More sinister even would be the probable long term effects. As a poison of choice does it not reveal something of Moriarty's mind-set (not just that he is insane). The sweet wrappers need not have been poisoned with anything. The children could have merely been kidnapped without introducing the poison.

Moriarty himself would undoubtedly not have been involved directly with these events, someone else would have done the dirty work (in all likelihood several people). These people are still at large. The poisoning of the children gives a further motivation to Sherlock in tracking these associates of Moriarty down, especially as Sherlock himself would be implicated in the kidnap and poisoning thanks to Kitty Riley's exposé and the revelations of Rich Brook. This ties in with the canon.

Newbies (and oldbies)  to the board may enjoy thinking these things through.



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     Thread Starter
 

September 4, 2012 11:06 am  #10


Re: Why does the little girl scream? Why mercury?

Hallucinations would not explain why Sherlock specifically made her scream

Last edited by Sentimental Pulse (September 4, 2012 11:07 am)


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Disguise is always a self portrait
 

September 4, 2012 11:07 am  #11


Re: Why does the little girl scream? Why mercury?

kazza474 wrote:

Yep it sure is, most threads here are for opinions, on matters surrounding Reichenbach we have nothing else till we see the next series.
Is something misleading or unclear?

Nope. Maybe I misread your tone. I apologize.


***********************************************************************************************************************
In a world of locked rooms, the man with the key is king. And honey...you should see me in a crown...
 

September 4, 2012 11:09 am  #12


Re: Why does the little girl scream? Why mercury?

Davina wrote:

I've looked up the symptoms of mercury poison and delusions and hallucinations are not symptoms. The cognitive disturbance is generally one of impaired cognitive function rather than suggestibility. I suggest it was chosen as it was not going to cause immediate death but would require hospitalisation and treatment, it would guarantee that the children would be hospitalised. More sinister even would be the probable long term effects. As a poison of choice does it not reveal something of Moriarty's mind-set (not just that he is insane). The sweet wrappers need not have been poisoned with anything. The children could have merely been kidnapped without introducing the poison.

Moriarty himself would undoubtedly not have been involved directly with these events, someone else would have done the dirty work (in all likelihood several people). These people are still at large. The poisoning of the children gives a further motivation to Sherlock in tracking these associates of Moriarty down, especially as Sherlock himself would be implicated in the kidnap and poisoning thanks to Kitty Riley's exposé and the revelations of Rich Brook. This ties in with the canon.

Newbies (and oldbies)  to the board may enjoy thinking these things through.


Interesting! I've never really thought about these things too deeply until I came to this forum. Yes, I do enjoy thinking them through. My thoughts are likely ones everyone's already thought of or stated (or they're just plain silly), but I like the fact that there are people around to bounce these thoughts off of. As I've said before, no one in my day-to-day life watches Sherlock.


***********************************************************************************************************************
In a world of locked rooms, the man with the key is king. And honey...you should see me in a crown...
 

September 4, 2012 11:11 am  #13


Re: Why does the little girl scream? Why mercury?

Sentimental Pulse wrote:

Hallucinations would not explain why Sherlock specifically made her scream

I was thinking not hallucinations or delusions, but more a kind of...unclear head. You know? Like when you first wake up and aren't sure where you're at? Like I said, I know little about mercury poisoning and I've never really thought of this until now.


***********************************************************************************************************************
In a world of locked rooms, the man with the key is king. And honey...you should see me in a crown...
 

September 4, 2012 11:21 am  #14


Re: Why does the little girl scream? Why mercury?

Banbha wrote:

Sentimental Pulse wrote:

Hallucinations would not explain why Sherlock specifically made her scream

I was thinking not hallucinations or delusions, but more a kind of...unclear head. You know? Like when you first wake up and aren't sure where you're at? Like I said, I know little about mercury poisoning and I've never really thought of this until now.

Yes but my point is, whatever caused this had to be Sherlock-centric. Moriarty had to ensure that the girl would scream only at the sight of Sherlock and not anyone else.

Last edited by Sentimental Pulse (September 4, 2012 11:21 am)


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Disguise is always a self portrait
 

September 4, 2012 11:27 am  #15


Re: Why does the little girl scream? Why mercury?

Sentimental Pulse wrote:

Banbha wrote:

Sentimental Pulse wrote:

Hallucinations would not explain why Sherlock specifically made her scream

I was thinking not hallucinations or delusions, but more a kind of...unclear head. You know? Like when you first wake up and aren't sure where you're at? Like I said, I know little about mercury poisoning and I've never really thought of this until now.

Yes but my point is, whatever caused this had to be Sherlock-centric. Moriarty had to ensure that the girl would scream only at the sight of Sherlock and not anyone else.

Ohhh I see. Yes, I agree with that.


***********************************************************************************************************************
In a world of locked rooms, the man with the key is king. And honey...you should see me in a crown...
 

September 4, 2012 11:56 am  #16


Re: Why does the little girl scream? Why mercury?

Well I truly beg to differ on it not being a symptom, it has been for 20 odd years that I have known of. We can beg to differ on that one.
As for why it made her scream at Sherlock, in the state of mental instability she would have been in, strong suggestions can easily be 'picked up on' by the patient. In such a disturbed state suggestion by showing a picture etc of Sherlock & the right words spoken by a 'kindly' man who has already given chocolates etc, she could have been convinced of anything.


____________________________________________________________________________________________
Also, please note that sentences can also end in full stops. The exclamation mark can be overused.
Sherlock Holmes 28 March 13:08

Mycroft’s popularity doesn’t surprise me at all. He is, after all, incredibly beautiful, clever and well-dressed. And beautiful. Did I mention that?
--Mark Gatiss

"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I’m not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert McCloskey
 

September 4, 2012 12:35 pm  #17


Re: Why does the little girl scream? Why mercury?

kazza474 wrote:

Well I truly beg to differ on it not being a symptom, it has been for 20 odd years that I have known of. We can beg to differ on that one.
As for why it made her scream at Sherlock, in the state of mental instability she would have been in, strong suggestions can easily be 'picked up on' by the patient. In such a disturbed state suggestion by showing a picture etc of Sherlock & the right words spoken by a 'kindly' man who has already given chocolates etc, she could have been convinced of anything.

This may make me sound really thick, but I was wondering why they were stuffing the chocolates down so intently? When Sherlock said, "The more they eat, the more they want to eat" because they were starving or because the mercury made them want to eat more?


***********************************************************************************************************************
In a world of locked rooms, the man with the key is king. And honey...you should see me in a crown...
 

September 6, 2012 6:34 pm  #18


Re: Why does the little girl scream? Why mercury?

kazza474 wrote:

As for why it made her scream at Sherlock, in the state of mental instability she would have been in, strong suggestions can easily be 'picked up on' by the patient. In such a disturbed state suggestion by showing a picture etc of Sherlock & the right words spoken by a 'kindly' man who has already given chocolates etc, she could have been convinced of anything.

Yep, I agree with that. Also Sherlock has a very distinct appearance so he is easy to recognize.

Banbha wrote:

This may make me sound really thick, but I was wondering why they were stuffing the chocolates down so intently? When Sherlock said, "The more they eat, the more they want to eat" because they were starving or because the mercury made them want to eat more?

As far as I know it was just because they were starving. And they are kids. With chocolate. 
I think it's a very cruel way to kill with candy, to be honest...

 

September 12, 2012 8:59 am  #19


Re: Why does the little girl scream? Why mercury?

Sammy wrote:

Ithink this was definitely part of Moriarty's plan. Of course he couldn't really know whether the girl would scream at Sherlock's sight or not, but it fits so perfectly into his scheme of making Sherlock the suspect that I doubt that it wasn't planned.
Okay, why did she scream? She was obviously terrified and it obviously had something to do with Sherlock. So, let's think. This girl has been kidnapped by some scary guys, brought to a scary place and then had to fear for her own and her brother's (?) life because of the effects of mercury-poisoning. This is enough to traumatize a child, the girl wouldn't really need any other reason to scream at random people. But because this is of importance for the plot she did not just scream for no reason. There are many possiblities to make the kids afraid of Sherlock - show them a picture/video clip of him and be like "that guy - he arranged for you to be kidnapped. He's the bad guy", for example. Or one of the kidnappers could just have been wearing the same coat as Sherlock... or just any dark coat at all... that would have been enough to remind the girl of her kidnappers and scare her.

Moriarty didn't want to kill the children, he wanted them to be found to make Sherlock look like the bad guy. He knew he gave him enough clues to sort this out. Mercury poisoning because of the candy wrappers would kill the kids very slowly, allowing the police enough time to find and save them. I don't know about the mercury... maybe it is some reference to some fairy tale or something? We know Moriarty loves those.
Why poison them at all? Well, I think to make the whole situation more serious. Then Sherlock wouldn't "just" be responsible for the kidnapping - no, he would also have almost killed them.
And also Moriarty is bonkers. 

This is pretty much my theory exactly!

And I definitely think Moriarty knew someone at Scotland Yard would pick up on it and begin to suspect him. He mentioned it in the Sir Boastalot video after all, he wouldn't have been able to make that so confidently if he wasn't certain this would happen. Even if it wasn't Donovan, he probably has insiders on the police force working for him, who would have suggested the idea had Donovan and Anderson not got there first.


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September 12, 2012 9:50 am  #20


Re: Why does the little girl scream? Why mercury?

Sherlock Holmes wrote:

And I definitely think Moriarty knew someone at Scotland Yard would pick up on it and begin to suspect him. He mentioned it in the Sir Boastalot video after all, he wouldn't have been able to make that so confidently if he wasn't certain this would happen. Even if it wasn't Donovan, he probably has insiders on the police force working for him, who would have suggested the idea had Donovan and Anderson not got there first.

I've decided to sit back & not post theories & queries too much any more, but your first sentence has caused me to ponder some more.

#1. My thought - Yes, I do think Moriarty ensured that Sherlock would investigate.
#2. Basic fact - Investigate means he would eventually be in that old chocolate factory carrying out the search for clues.
#3. Question -  Did the girl see Sherlock in the factory because this was a variable in Moriarty's plan; WHERE would the girl be when she screamed ( and what difference would that make to what happened immediately afterwards, if any) ?
#4. Variable - Had the girl screamed in the chocolate factory, would Sherlock have then gone to the Police station or home?
#5. Fact - Had he gone home, he would not have seen the IOU across in the other building.
#6. Question - Could the 'suggestion' that Sherlock was the bad guy have been done AFTER the rescue, and by who?
#7. Question - The father asked specifically for Sherlock to investigate, could this have been engineered by Moriarty in some way?
#8. Question - What does it all mean?
#9. Fact - I've been hanging out with the strangest bunch of peeps lately.


____________________________________________________________________________________________
Also, please note that sentences can also end in full stops. The exclamation mark can be overused.
Sherlock Holmes 28 March 13:08

Mycroft’s popularity doesn’t surprise me at all. He is, after all, incredibly beautiful, clever and well-dressed. And beautiful. Did I mention that?
--Mark Gatiss

"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I’m not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert McCloskey
 

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