BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Another Telegraph article

Davina · August 20, 2012 2:45 pm

Written by Peter Stanford and dated 18.08.2012 (08.18.2012). Entitled 'It's no good Benedict Cumberbatch can't stop us liking him.

'...there is a chameleon-like quality about him that seems set to prove far more enduring and intriguing for audiences than his angular, slightly wonky (?) features, his current run of high profile roles, or even his clumsy attempts to make us stop liking him'.

www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/9485074/It's-no-good-Benedict-Cumberbatch-can't-stop-us-liking-him.html

The Doctor · August 21, 2012 12:38 am

.. wow.. letting people down on purpose as "a strategy here to cool things down with his fan base"?

What was that about wanting things to be (too) clever?

Davina · August 21, 2012 5:53 am

Agreed. The author's over-thinking things. He's right in the main though about it not having any effect whatsoever on his fan base.

hepzibah · August 21, 2012 1:22 pm

This idiot seems to think that Benedict and Olivia split because he became famous, but Benedict has specifically said that isn't so. And when did he defend those born with a silver spoon? Or say that he considered attending university in Manchester to be 'roughing it'? I could go on but the article is giving me a headache.

Davina · August 21, 2012 1:31 pm

I cannot see how the split came about because he became famous because, apart from anything else, he wasn't really famous when they split anyway was he.

The Doctor · August 21, 2012 11:52 pm

hepzibah wrote:
attending university in Manchester to be 'roughing it'

lol, that came from Benedict himself and I already thought back then that was quite hilarious. It is still a pretty prestigious university!

221B Baker Street · August 22, 2012 4:49 am

Davina wrote:
I cannot see how the split came about because he became famous because, apart from anything else, he wasn't really famous when they split anyway was he.

Yes, exactly! They split when he wasn't so very famous.
The article is so acrimonious that I still have some disgusting taste in my mouth .

kazza474 · August 22, 2012 7:14 am

Oh dear, such negative comments about this one. And I really don't think they are justified.

This paragraph hits the nail right on the proverbial head:

He effortlessly blurs the line between being a leading man and a character actor. Usually, you do the first young and briefly, then fade from memory, or you bide your time until jawlines sag before making your mark. Cumberbatch seems to have pulled off both at once. Take his choice of roles. He has studiously avoided the Hugh Grant, foppish rom-com route. And he manages, when the part requires it (notably in Sherlock), to carry an asexual air with him. Moreover, he avoids the obvious – giving a wide berth to efforts to make him David Tennant’s successor as Doctor Who – and goes instead for unlikely and potentially unlikeable parts. His Holmes could, in less subtle hands, have seemed remote and somewhere on the autistic spectrum.

Benedict's not what one would class a 'young' man so he has sidestepped the 'cutesy' tags, albeit he hasn't dodged the ridiculous fangirling much to his dismay . He has had time to perfect his craft & has been fortunate enough to do so over many fields. He can be admired for his technical brilliance in acting by the more refined fans of his art. So often the latest 'heart throb' is technically devoid of any real talent, but who cares when you can squeal your little hearts out at the sight of those ones, lol. He enjoys meeting his fans but of late you would have to say he is less enthusiastic about the squealing idolisation by some. He IS and obviously wants to be liked as a mature actor.

As for his split with Olivia, no-one knows the real reason & nor should they. But no doubt his rise to fame (yes he was rising then, after Series 1 came out) would have played a part in the decision; not the reason but must have been a factor. So we can't say this guy is wrong in what he writes really. There are some very key hints to what went on there.

They have however got the Downton Abbey thing wrong. A bit more research there would have enlightened the writer.
Overall he makes some good observations about Ben.

Davina · August 22, 2012 12:00 pm

His reference to Manchester as his University of choice as being somewhat surprising is actually a valid one. It is an excellent university but it is neither Oxford nor Cambridge either of which would be the stereotypical university of choice for a Harrovian.

221B Baker Street · August 23, 2012 3:49 am

kazza474 wrote:
As for his split with Olivia, no-one knows the real reason & nor should they. But no doubt his rise to fame would have played a part in the decision; not the reason but must have been a factor. So we can't say this guy is wrong in what he writes really. There are some very key hints to what went on there.

Why do you think so? Especially with 'no doubt'.
I don't agree on this. This article puts it as if it was the main reason for their split. I quote "There is a well-established cliché of men who achieve fame dumping the women who supported them on the way up". Isn't it disgusting a little bit?
I was in long term relations with a man and we parted due to lots of factors, and I observe Ben-Olivia's split from my point of view and see everything very clearly (though I might be wrong) and believe his fame has nothing to do with it.
I just don't understand why people try to find some faults with him? There are lots of articles where journalists try to throw mud at him. And all these discussions regarding his education and belonging to the"class" drive me mad. It seems to me that people want him to apologize for his being well-bred and educated. Or is it wrong now to be educated and clever?

kazza474 · August 23, 2012 5:06 am

221B Baker Street wrote:
Why do you think so? Especially with 'no doubt'.
I don't agree on this. This article puts it as if it was the main reason for their split. I quote "There is a well-established cliché of men who achieve fame dumping the women who supported them on the way up". Isn't it disgusting a little bit?
I was in long term relations with a man and we parted due to lots of factors, and I observe Ben-Olivia's split from my point of view and see everything very clearly (though I might be wrong) and believe his fame has nothing to do with it.
I just don't understand why people try to find some faults with him? There are lots of articles where journalists try to throw mud at him. And all these discussions regarding his education and belonging to the"class" drive me mad. It seems to me that people want him to apologize for his being well-bred and educated. Or is it wrong now to be educated and clever?

They were together for 12 years. Happily.
Then they split up.
The only major change in their lives appears to be his stardom. Nothing else has come to light.
The logical conclusion is that the major change must have had an influence on their lives in some way.

Look at the other signs from several quarters.
He openly states how he wished he had children by now.
His ex-partner is still pursuing her own career in acting. He has 'made it big' , she hasn't yet.
His sister says that the best woman for him would be one who would 'not be in acting & would be happy to hold the fort while he pursued his acting career'.
To my mind Olivia wasn't ready to have children with him, she still has some acting to do.
This situation could lead to an amicable split; both agreeing they don't want the same things right now; both realising that if he wants a family life & she is not ready to give him that then maybe their priorities have gone in different directions.
he is testing the waters out now with other ladies, I would say most notably with Lydia Hearst, hence his recent comment about 'punching above his weight'. She's in a much higher league than he usually travels in. I am surprised people haven't caught on to that quote yet & worked it out.

I don't read this article as trying to find faults with him. He points out his own faults; he admits he is far from perfect as are all humans.
I think you guys are far too sensitive about anything printed about him.
At a guess, I would say Ben was chuckling about this piece it is a humorous look at his fame & the scrutiny he gets placed under.

Lighten up guys, it's far from an attacking piece lol.

221B Baker Street · August 23, 2012 5:46 am

kazza474 wrote:
They were together for 12 years. Happily.
Then they split up.
The only major change in their lives appears to be his stardom. Nothing else has come to light.
The logical conclusion is that the major change must have had an influence on their lives in some way.

One never knows they lived happily or not. They seemed happy, they said they had been happy, but who knows what was deeper? I know from my part that you may look happy, you feel comfortable with your partner, everybody thinks you're the best couple ever, but very deep inside you know that you're more friends that lovers and that you don't want to have children with this very man though you feel broody. It's just a strong affection for a person whom you have known for ages, he's like your brother. But the problem is you can't split with this man as it's like the second half of yourself. It takes you really very long time to realize there's no way of trying to let things go as they go and you make up your mind to split.
That's how I understand their splitting. There needn't be any vivid reason for parting. If there is only Ben's becoming famous among possible reasons it shouldn't be by all means the right reason.

kazza474 wrote:
he is testing the waters out now with other ladies, I would say most notably with Lydia Hearst, hence his recent comment about 'punching above his weight'. She's in a much higher league than he usually travels in.

Did he say 'punching above his weight' meaning his love affairs? I thought it had another implication.

kazza474 wrote:
I am surprised people haven't caught on to that quote yet & worked it out.

I believe people (journalists) have already caught all possible and impossible quotes of his and worked them out in all possible and impossible ways, so there's only one quote left, this one .

kazza474 · August 23, 2012 6:15 am

They are both quite intelligent, both quite capable of not needing the other. Nothing ever came out stating there were any problems, his family & friends during & after their relationship never suggested things were otherwise so there is no evidence to the contrary. You know sometimes things ARE at face value, as boring as that may seem.
So when things change, to say that a major change in one or the other's life has no bearing on the change would be a stretch of the imagination really.
Look in the end, I'm not going to argue the point. It seems quite common sense that things went as they did because of the change in his career. Of course he could have been struck on the head during a stunt and suffered a degree of amnesia so we cannot rule all things out I guess.

"Punching above one's weight" certainly does mean dating someone from a much higher 'circle' these days. For some time now it has been a common theme for celebrity chat; articles on 'who is punching above their weight these days' are fairly routine.
Considering he spoke that line just before going into talking about is split with Olivia and just after saying how flattering it was that people considered him a 'pin-up' these days again using common sense we would take this as relating to his attractiveness & lovelife.

He's an actor, a good actor. He has many fine qualities but for heaven's sakes he is no saint and there is no reason to put him on a pedestal to never have a less than adoring comment made about him. He would be the first one to ridicule such an idea.
He IS public property and journalists WILL write good and bad things about him. His weaknesses and failures WILL be printed. His quirks and idiosyncrasies are what makes him interesting.

Be thankful that journalists ARE writing about him, in any manner. Because when they stop, you won't see him again.
That's showbiz.

hepzibah · August 23, 2012 6:16 am

Getting into the area of gossip here, but I read that Benedict and Olivia split up for a while just before he went to South Africa to film To The Ends of the Earth.
He was apparently blindsided by the split. They obviously worked it out because they were back together for a few years. They finally split for good when Sherlock was filming, when, lets face it, he wasn't a household name with half of Tumblr pursuing him! I couldn't tell you where the article about the earlier split is, but I'm sure I could find it if anyone wants me to.

I'm posting this, not to annoy anyone (that is just an added bonus!) but because I tend to be very literal (that pesky Aspergers) and while I acknowledge that our opinions on issues may differ, we need the facts to actually form these opinions. I hate seeing a magazine cover that has blatant lies, e.g. several magazine covers here in Australia this week have cover stories saying that Prince William's wife, Catherine, is pregnant. I'm sure the Palace wouldn't choose to release that info to trashy mags before the rest of the world. Makes my blood boil.

Anyway, peace & love, my children

kazza474 · August 23, 2012 6:27 am

They finally split in the early part of 2011.
Sherlock had already been aired in 2010.

221B Baker Street · August 23, 2012 6:58 am

kazza474,
"It seems quite common sense that things went as they did because of the change in his career"
Sometimes common sense cannot find the right solution . And the real reason may occur not to be on the surface.
I see your point. You have one view of the situation. I have another one.

What about "Punching above one's weight", I understood that as implying his career and new possibilities for him as an actor. I'm not a native speaker, perhaps I got it wrong.

I take him as a saint in no way, really . I'm just irritated by that continuous discussions of their split and possible reasons. Why not think it was in NO WAY connected with his fame? Of course, it is more interesting to think it was BECAUSE of his fame. People, they are so predictable .

"Be thankful that journalists ARE writing about him, in any manner. Because when they stop, you won't see him again.
That's showbiz."
Should I? I'm sorry but it made me laugh. Without offence.

Davina · August 23, 2012 7:15 am

They were together since University so they met when they were very young. They are both working in an unreliable and demanding profession. He wants children but will be able to continue with his career at the same time. The presumption is that the mother of those children would not be able to continue to do so. This is the view of Benedict's sister. Martin's wife manages to combine an acting career and having two children.

Who is this ex-boyfriend of Olivia Poulet's anyway?

hepzibah · August 23, 2012 9:57 am

kazza474 wrote:
They finally split in the early part of 2011.
Sherlock had already been aired in 2010.

Kazza, I will concede that point to you, I seem to have been confused about the dates

One thing the journo did get wrong was saying that Benedict referred to 'roughing it' at Manchester University. What he in fact said was that he chose Manchester Uni instead of Oxbridge was to get away from the whole privileged cliche, though Manchester Uni was 'not exactly roughing it'. Totally different to the slant that the journo put on it.

In conclusion to my well-though out (hah!) argument, you can call me naive, but I prefer to believe Benedict's words to the journalist's interpretation. Same goes for interviews with any other celebrity. Until there is evidence that they are lying, I believe them.