BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Mycrofts sexuality

beekeeper · May 23, 2013 8:07 am

I think Mark Gatiss, who after all is both the writer and the actor, has made a statement regarding Mycroft's sexuality, no? The only thing telling against that would be that he has an attractive opposite sex assistant, which - well, I dunno, it doesn't seem like a strong argument.

Re the rings. First off, in the UK nowadays married gay couples actually mainly wear their rings on the left hand. In the past, it would have been more normal to wear them on the right, but that was partly in protest that it was not legal. Mark Gatiss, as a married gay man, will be aware of this.

Second, its not just Mycroft who wears the ring. Anthea, and one of the doctors who pulls John's hand away from Sherlock, also wear them. So that says secret service (or whatever, yeah I know-"spy on people for money"). Either that or a rather out of date underground gay protest group.

I also think, to a British audience, the "here to see the Queen" thing really does mean only one thing, it is a very clear dig at Mycroft's sexuality. Sherlock could possibly be implying he was closeted or acted like a gay man. But in context there is no way that that could be a suggestion he was somehow in charge. And I have to say, I could be wrong, but my instinct is that Sherlock wouldn't be especially likely to use "gay" as an insult per se. To use it of his brother who he knows to be gay is much tamer than to use it as an insult cold, iyswim.

Last edited by beekeeper (May 23, 2013 8:15 am)

MysteriaSleuthbedder · May 23, 2013 8:41 am

beekeeper wrote:
I think Mark Gatiss, who after all is both the writer and the actor, has made a statement regarding Mycroft's sexuality, no?.

Not that I recall. Do you have a reference?

besleybean · May 23, 2013 3:28 pm

No,just an interview,
He said he considers Mycroft to be gay.

MysteriaSleuthbedder · May 23, 2013 4:15 pm

besleybean wrote:
No,just an interview,
He said he considers Mycroft to be gay.

What interview, though? Was it one of the panels, or DVD commentary or something else? I've never heard this before.

besleybean · May 23, 2013 4:17 pm

Can't remember...read it somewhere.

MysteriaSleuthbedder · May 23, 2013 4:51 pm

besleybean wrote:
Can't remember...read it somewhere.

I read it somewhere, too. Right here in this thread. But before folks start tweeting or tumbling this as fact, we have to acknowledge that possible faulty memory or misperception, or just repeating what we read with no reference to any primary source, renders this speculation not fact.

I'm pretty much indifferent to Mycroft's sexual preferences, unless the story gets to some point where it's relevant, but as of now ITT, we have no data one way or the other.

Perhaps someone who reads the thread will provide some. Otherwise, it's a terminally moot point.

beekeeper · May 23, 2013 7:26 pm

Yeah, it was an interview, BB glad you remember it too. I think its pretty well known in the fandom and Gatiss has certainly done nothing to refute it. But honestly, I cannot reference every single interview with everyone I've ever read. Really, can you? Really? The reason for that is that, to me, its not a shocking or amazing revelation.Yeah he's probably gay. And? Who cares? Why does it matter?

There are so many wild theories in the Sherlock fandom. This is hardly the most controversial. I'd say that the idea that the ring belonged to his dead father is rather more tenuous. We don't even know his father is dead. And tbh, in the UK, people don't normally wear their dad's rings. And yet the idea that Mycroft might be gay is the one considered so out there that we're being asked for evidence? Seriously?

Isn't it interesting what people ask for interview evidence to corroborate?

Last edited by beekeeper (May 23, 2013 7:45 pm)

besleybean · May 23, 2013 7:34 pm

Quite clearly Sherlock implying Mycroft is gay and he would know.
He could be joking.
So maybe Mycroft gets him back with the ' virgin' jibe...
But I actually think each is making an accurate assessment of the other.

beekeeper · May 23, 2013 7:39 pm

yes I think this is how I would see it

If Mycroft isn't gay then Sherlock isn't a virgin.

This seems pretty unlikely for two reasons. Firstly, him. Secondly, the point of that particular story, to my mind, is that Sherlock by the end of it is a whole lot less sexually naive.

There's another point I'd forgotten. Mycroft is entirely, completely, unimpressed by Irene. And she doesn't even try to seduce him. Remember she'd been told how to play them both. She knew there was no point in trying to seduce Mycroft but that this would work with Sherlock. Given that this is Sherlock , that's quite a big deal. It basically says that Mycroft is un-seducable by a woman, to me.

besleybean · May 23, 2013 7:42 pm

Quite...
Tho I do wonder if playful Moriarty just wanted to have a little game with Sherlock and see just how he would react.
Sorry I know I'm OT here.
But also, Irene was clever and Moriarty may also have been palying the 'see, she's a smart woman and she chose ME!' game,.

beekeeper · May 23, 2013 7:48 pm

yk, I like that teory too

and I also like the other possibility-that Irene actually did just like Sherlock.

I think its the way Mycroft says it that makes me think he is deadly serious and what he's saying isn't controversial at all to either of them. And the fact that Sherlock doens't respond iirc. If one of my siblings said that to me I'd have something to say back.

besleybean · May 23, 2013 7:53 pm

Yes, Sherlock seems amazed that Mycroft would just say it out loud and in public like that...tho to be fair, in front of Sherlock's best friend and I gather Mycroft's close friend.

beekeeper · May 23, 2013 8:12 pm

and in Buckingham Palace too. Wow.

besleybean · May 23, 2013 8:15 pm

I'm rewatching GAME on Alibi and I'd forgotten this little interchange between the Holmes brothers: when John returns from Sarah's. The:
My brother's business seems to be booming since you and he became ' pals'...

beekeeper · May 23, 2013 8:22 pm

That is actually the problem with this theory isn't it? Mycroft certainly seems to be suggesting that there is something going on between John and Sherlock. There's a few times he suggests this, now I think of it. So unless literally every character on Sherlock is gay except possibly Mrs Hudson, it might simply be that this is a reverse dig.

Last edited by beekeeper (May 23, 2013 8:23 pm)

Punch me in the face · May 23, 2013 8:26 pm

Well, Sherlock usually doesn't deny anything about his sexuality.

He doesn't say a word when he and John are mistaken for a couple.

So, if we say that he doesn't deny it when Mycroft clearly implies he's a virgin, should we think that because he doesn't protest when people considers John "his date", it is fair to believe he loves John?

Well, I'd like to think so but I know my "slash obsession" doesn't make me too objective about this.

Honestly, I think Sherlock is a virgin because he looks genuinely hurt when Mycroft says "how would you know", it's not like he doesn't care (he shows no reaction at all when people think he and sherlock are a couple), he's really got the face of someone who is upset but doesn't dare to say anything for fear that people may think "oh, so it's true then" .

Anyway, it wouldn't be that surprising... I'm not saying he couldn't seduce. He can be such a charmer when he wants to (and even when he doesn't want, actually), look at that poor Molly, he keeps on telling her horrible things, and yet she still loves him. But he's much more interested by work than by relationships, he makes it clear. And I think he's never showed interest to anyone before John & Irene.

I do believe though that he doesn't care much about genders. He likes John because he is the puzzle piece that completes him (and vice versa), he likes Irene because she's like his female alter ego (as far as brains are concerned, that is) .I'd say he's either asexual or bisexual.

As for Mycroft... I don't know... I think I may have difficulties to forget Gatiss when I think of his character... What I mean is that I've always assumed he was gay, without really looking for an explanation.

Last edited by Punch me in the face (May 23, 2013 8:34 pm)

besleybean · May 23, 2013 8:27 pm

Yes cos Mycroft definitely knows about Sherlock...
But then remember, he aslo knows that until now, Sherlock hadn't had a real freind.

beekeeper · May 23, 2013 8:46 pm

Do you know what though, honestly, I don't think we have much information about Sherlock's sexuality. It really is not discussed. He is an enigma. I almost feel like they are as likely to give us clear canon on it as they are to tell us the Doctor's real name. FWIW I'd say the information we have is that he is not not bisexual. And he probably is not gay, because of Irene. But aside from that, I really don't think we know. I don't think we have enough access to his head or emotions to be clear whether he feels the same way for John as John feels for him.

What I think the show deals with far more is actually John's sexuality. The way I read it with him is that he's come from a space where sexuality is very binary. This is what the army is like. A part for him of leaving the army is finding this male friend to whom he is much closer than, well, certainly I'd say is usual for straight men of his age. What happens then for a guy with no blueprint for something like this happening? That's why its interesting. To me theres a subtext there around how fluid sexuality really is.

Last edited by beekeeper (May 23, 2013 8:50 pm)

besleybean · May 23, 2013 8:51 pm

I don't see that at all.
John is strarght, a ladies man...sorry I'm OT again.
But I think Mycroft reads John too.

beekeeper · May 23, 2013 8:55 pm

But it is John who Mycroft reads, not Sherlock. Mycroft has never suggested to Sherlock that anything is going on between them, only to John.

This could be because he's trying to goad John. But why? And why in that particular way? (as every single person who has been a sibling knows...you only bother teasing with something people will rise to...and nothing will get a rise so much as something someone is uncertain about themself)

I'm so not a shipper-I'm certainly not suggesting anything going on there. Really not. But I think that the relationship with Sherlock may have rattled John, and that Mycroft uses this to psychological effect.

John is into the ladies, without a doubt. But almost to a silly extent. Almost like he's trying to prove something. And he drops them when Sherlock snaps his fingers.

TBH more than anything I think its a show about two men with a lot of emotional maturing to do. The way they act remind me of the way my 10 year old son is with his friends, doing their boy adventures with sticks and so on. The trouble I think is actually with mapping those intense, tween friendships onto middle aged men. 10 year old boys are pretty "yuk, girls" IME. When a 35 year old man is the adult equivalent of "yuk, girls" we think, "hmmmmm, interesting.".

Last edited by beekeeper (May 23, 2013 9:02 pm)