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July 23, 2012 3:41 pm  #1


Book Club 23rd July-6th August (STUD)

So guys, you've got till 6th August to read A Study In Scarlet, then we'll discuss it as a group!


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July 24, 2012 3:16 am  #2


Re: Book Club 23rd July-6th August (STUD)

Sweet.

 

July 24, 2012 9:35 pm  #3


Re: Book Club 23rd July-6th August (STUD)

OK!!   I'm  halfway through it now.  This will work in very nicely,  with my travel plans.


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SHERLOCK!!!!!!
 

August 3, 2012 7:12 am  #4


Re: Book Club 23rd July-6th August (STUD)

I only spotted the thread today... I don't think I will quite make it in time...


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"There is no such word as 'impossible' in my dictionary. In fact, everything between 'herring' and 'marmalade' seems to be missing." Dirk Gently

Finally, I have made it to Cipher Expert :-))))) (8.8.2012)
 

August 5, 2012 3:46 am  #5


Re: Book Club 23rd July-6th August (STUD)

I'm reading it now...hopefully will have finished it by 6 August. 


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"That's how you get your kicks, isn't it? You risk your life to prove you're clever.
Why would I do that?
Because you're an idiot."


"We solve crimes, I blog about it, and he forgets his pants."

Gwyn eich byd a dymanuf i chwi lawenydd bob amser.
 

August 7, 2012 6:41 am  #6


Re: Book Club 23rd July-6th August (STUD)

We can discuss this story at anytime.  That's why  the title   of this topic  is devoted to just STUDY IN SCARLET.  This thread will always be here.   I'm going to finish my reading tonight,  and so I'll post my review later.  Join me, when you get a chance.   I look fwd to hearing your views too.  And, yes, if you want, you may compare ACD's canon story to the television airings, whether it be Jeremy Brett's,  Benedict Cumberbatch's, or  someone else's version.


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SHERLOCK!!!!!!
 

August 8, 2012 9:51 am  #7


Re: Book Club 23rd July-6th August (STUD)

I have finished the novel... but frankly I have to gather my thoughts about it a bit more before I feel able to write anything close to a comparison to the "Study in Pink".


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"There is no such word as 'impossible' in my dictionary. In fact, everything between 'herring' and 'marmalade' seems to be missing." Dirk Gently

Finally, I have made it to Cipher Expert :-))))) (8.8.2012)
 

August 8, 2012 9:55 am  #8


Re: Book Club 23rd July-6th August (STUD)

Oh, take your time - I'm 50% through now.
And meanwhile I changed to German version  - holidays are for relaxing, aren't they? 

Last edited by Mattlocked (August 8, 2012 10:02 am)


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"After all this time?" "Always."
Good bye, Lord Rickman of the Alan
 

August 8, 2012 5:52 pm  #9


Re: Book Club 23rd July-6th August (STUD)

you have a german version?  I'd be interested to know how it's different from the version I've read,  which is American. 

Ok  I'm  done.   I  had read this story before,  but this time,  it sunk in, as I was more interested in it.  I  didn't expect it to be such a long read, though.  I  knew it was a novel but still....Ok  so--this is where Watson was introduced to Sherlock Holmes, that amazingly accurate consulting detective.  Watson was so taken aback by his newfound friend's deductions that he decided to write up the story right then and there. 
This story  had two men murdered, with the deceased both taking a poisoned pill which their killer, named Jefferson Hope, who had gotten a job as a cabbie,  in order to flush out the men he was seeking to kill.  I  loved how he decided upon this course.  Being a cabbie opened up many avenues for him.  He could go anywhere he wanted, without his employer knowing what he was up to.  The money wasn't great to live on;  but Hope didn't care much about that. 
Hope wanted these two men to pay for their treatment of his ladylove, Lucy Ferrier.  She had been taken away from him, and forced to marry one of them,  due to the strict upbringing of their beliefs.  True,  it was a religious thing, but I  don't want to make too fine a point upon that, ok?  Anyway,  Jefferson Hope wanted revenge because they had also killed the girl's father. 
Enter Sherlock Holmes into this strange case.  The more strange the case, the more Holmes liked them.  The police--Gregson and Lestrade,  were at odds with each other,  but it took Sherlock Holmes to set them right.  He let them go about their business, while he and Watson went about theirs.  Three days into the mystery, Sherlock led the police to Jefferson Hope.  How?   By  reasoning  BACKWARDS.  Most detectives go forward when solving a case, but Holmes reasoned backwards,  and was able to shed light where it was needed.  I  LOVED  that!! 
I  also loved how we, the readers,  found out just how Holmes had deduced and solved the mystery.  THAT  was a long detailed account.  It gave me insight into Doyle's most famous character.  And Watson was a clever fellow too, asking  questions, and Holmes was very good about his answers.  In this story, I think Holmes found a kindred spirit in Watson, and that is why these two men clicked. 

a very good read.  Some parts were a bit boring,  and long,  but I enjoyed it, nevertheless.


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SHERLOCK!!!!!!
 

August 9, 2012 6:46 pm  #10


Re: Book Club 23rd July-6th August (STUD)

Ok, I don't think I will attempt to write a full review... I'll just try a short comparison to Study in Pink:

First of all, I was quite surprised how the first part of the novel was used virtually to the word in the BBC series, but the second part is completely different.
What I immediately noticed was that the Sherlock Holmes of the novel is a more mature, self assured man than the character we see in the TV series. He is slightly vain, as Watson notes, maybe more so than Benedict's Sherlock, but otherwise he seems more at ease, still excitable but not as impatient.
Watson himself is less active than Martin's character, he is actually suffering from the effects of his injury, and happy to take it slowly. Also, he does not get involved in Holmes' dealings straight away. That puts him in a slightly different position from the Watson of the series, because he can observe and analyse more carefully, as he is not actually part of the investigation itself. Of course, such a character would be less interesting to watch on screen, which was probably one of the reasons Mofftiss made the change
.
Regarding the story, I was a bit surprised to note that in the novel, the police immediately assume that they have a murder on their hands. In SiP, it takes three deaths for them to even consider any alternative to suicide. I am not entirely sure why the writers decided to change the police line of investigation so drastically. Any thoughts?

Finally, there is of course the most significant difference - the motive of Jefferson Hope. Here, I must admit I prefer the original to the TV solution. Murder as a crime of passion and revenge may seem old-fashioned, but it still is probably the strongest motive I could think of for killing someone in cold blood. At first, the long, detailed background story seemed a little out of place in a detective novel for me, but then I understood that it serves the purpose of making Hope's behaviour more believable, make us grasp just how much and how long he suffered. I missed that in SiP. The cabbie is just a man with twisted concept of helping his children, it is hard to feel any sympathy for him at all.
But then again, the writers had to make sure we as viewers don't hold a grudge against Watson for shooting him, so they couldn't tell a heartbreaking story, could they?


________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"There is no such word as 'impossible' in my dictionary. In fact, everything between 'herring' and 'marmalade' seems to be missing." Dirk Gently

Finally, I have made it to Cipher Expert :-))))) (8.8.2012)
 

August 9, 2012 7:11 pm  #11


Re: Book Club 23rd July-6th August (STUD)

Thanks for your thoughts, Kermit  . You're quite right about the extended story of Hope serving the purpose of explaining his motives for the murders. Another big difference is of course that in the show Moriarty is introduced from the very first episode making the cabbie a sort of tool instead of providing him with a detailed backstory.


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

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August 10, 2012 5:25 am  #12


Re: Book Club 23rd July-6th August (STUD)

Yes---many similarities between SIP BBC  and the canon SIS.   It's amazing to me how Moftiss took an original story and made it into something  for the time we live in now. 

I  forgot to mention--The first murder of Drepper  in SIS  was with the word RACHE  which is german  for "revenge"  In this version it was used as it was meant to be used,  but the dead man didn't write it--  it was the killer  who wrote it.  But the killer wasn't german.....So I wonder how he knew what the word meant?   


from kermit---
Regarding the story, I was a bit surprised to note that in the novel, the police immediately assume that they have a murder on their hands. In SiP, it takes three deaths for them to even consider any alternative to suicide. I am not entirely sure why the writers decided to change the police line of investigation so drastically. Any thoughts?  quote---


Kermit-- good question--Ok...in the canon story,  Gregson and Lestrade weren't very smart--Holmes was smarter than them,  but Holmes let them go on about their business anyway and Holmes found the killer himself without any interference from the police.   But,  in SIP,  Lestrade was desperate for help from Sherlock,  and, again, Holmes was smarter.  Lestrade thought it was suicide because he didn't even THINK that there was a reason behind the deaths.  (but he SHOULD have realized it, since the dead ppl didn't leave any suicide notes behind!!)


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SHERLOCK!!!!!!
 

August 12, 2012 4:48 pm  #13


Re: Book Club 23rd July-6th August (STUD)

Sherlockskitty, I wondered about the "Rache" thing as well. I mean, it was not actually a clue for us readers or for the police to unravel, so why did ACD put it in? Would writing "revenge" not have been more likely in the case of an American murderer? I did like the fact that they switched it in the TV series though, a nice tribute.


________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"There is no such word as 'impossible' in my dictionary. In fact, everything between 'herring' and 'marmalade' seems to be missing." Dirk Gently

Finally, I have made it to Cipher Expert :-))))) (8.8.2012)
 

August 12, 2012 10:30 pm  #14


Re: Book Club 23rd July-6th August (STUD)

ACD  has/had been all over the world at the time he wrote Sherlock Holmes and Study in Scarlet,  so there is that possibility that he wanted to use the german word Rache  in there somewhere.  Having found the right story,  he put it in there, and then it was we readers who read more into it.  And then BBC  sherlock writers figured out another way to use it,  which was brilliant.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

SHERLOCK!!!!!!
 

August 13, 2012 1:36 pm  #15


Re: Book Club 23rd July-6th August (STUD)

The use of the word Rache by the killer would have probably have been an attempt to lead the police off the track of the real killer. They may have been looking for a German or Austrian killer.


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Don't make people into heroes John. Heroes don't exist and if they did I wouldn't be one of them.
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August 14, 2012 7:49 pm  #16


Re: Book Club 23rd July-6th August (STUD)

Okay, I'm not in the mood to write a long review (sorry!)...

I enjoyed the read at the beginning at lot, especially because of the similarities and differences to BBC Sherlock. It was my first Sherlock Holmes book to read and I immediately loved the character of Mr. Holmes - no wonder the franchise became so succesful. After Holmes and Watson's first meeting I have to say it soon became a bit boring, but not so much that I would put the book away.
It surprised me a hell lot when the setting changed and they suddenly started telling the story of Jefferson Hope. I have to say, though, that I found it highly interesting and very suspenseful, a big change to the first part of the book. Then we changed back to Holmes and Watson and the "brutal murderer" suddenly became a sympathetic figure.
I'm still not sure if ACD was trying to hide a moral there - don't judge people before you know their stories?

I like the concept of the book. I like how you first only got a criminal and then you got a tragic character who you felt sorry for. But I think it could have been done better. It just seemed too inconsistent.

Yeah. So. I don't have any more thoughts on it right now. Too tired.

 

August 15, 2012 3:21 am  #17


Re: Book Club 23rd July-6th August (STUD)

It interests me how in some of his stories ACD wrote the criminal's life story. My assumption is that it was probably to try to humanize his antagonists. However, I always found these sections rather slow, and I basically skimmed through the Jefferson Hope one. 

 

August 27, 2012 2:07 pm  #18


Re: Book Club 23rd July-6th August (STUD)

Yeah, I wasn't so keen on the middle section. It was very interesting to get a bit of background on the character, but most of the time I was just like..."Aww I want SH & JW back".

But never the less, I do love this book, and especially all the little bits that were appropriated and used so cleverly in ASIP.


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