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February 22, 2012 3:12 pm  #1


D'you think Mycroft is involved?

Do you think Mycroft helped Sherlock to fake it? A lot of people seem to think he must have had a hand in it somewhere but I find it hard to believe that Sherlock would ask Mycroft for help, given their history of not getting on! What d'you think?


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March 4, 2012 2:01 pm  #2


Re: D'you think Mycroft is involved?

For my taste it is too often emphasized that Sherlock and Mycroft aren’t getting on well.

Yet we all know that Mycroft is "constantly" concerned about his little brother.
Just remember how he was concerned about Sherlock when everyone could assume that Irene was dead. He made John and Mrs. Hudson search for hidden drugs and stay with Sherlock in case he would need them.
On the other hand, Sherlock is kind of proud of Mycroft ("He IS the British Government!") and he needs him, even if it’s only to have access to a secret military base: "Mycroft’s name literally opens doors."
Mycroft needs Sherlock as well, see the cases of Westie and Irene.
And at the point of the Fall there is so much to be done. The Government is alarmed by Moriarty’s criminal network and its connection to terrorism.
Another "hour of need" where Sherlock’s name "has arisen", I presume.
But only a Sherlock who "stays out of the news", who can work hidden away will be of use to Mycroft.
Therefore Sherlock needs his liberty, his "liberty in DEATH"...

Yes, of course Mycroft is involved in faking Sherlock’s death! Who else would have all the means, could hold all the strings?

The last picture of Mycroft in Reichenbach shows a thoughtful, not a grieving man.

Mycroft knows Sherlock’s alive.

And -  it’s canon!


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John: "Have you spoken to Mycroft, Molly, uh, anyone?"
Mrs Hudson: "They don’t matter. You do."


I BELIEVE IN SERIES 5!




                                                                                                                  
 

March 4, 2012 2:06 pm  #3


Re: D'you think Mycroft is involved?

Good answer!

Having looked back through some of the scenes between Sherlock and Mycroft I think it's true that the thing about them not getting on is probably a little overplayed and not as bad as they make out. I suppose that really they're just like any other two brothers who bicker and make fun of each other.


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March 4, 2012 10:00 pm  #4


Re: D'you think Mycroft is involved?

Yes. Mycroft is no fool. He practically is the British Government, according to Sherlock. He, like Sherlock, despises sentiment and like Sherlock will do what others will not do.


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Don't make people into heroes John. Heroes don't exist and if they did I wouldn't be one of them.
 

March 4, 2012 10:54 pm  #5


Re: D'you think Mycroft is involved?

tobeornot221b wrote:

For my taste it is too often emphasized that Sherlock and Mycroft aren’t getting on well.

Mycroft knows Sherlock’s alive.

And -  it’s canon!

The 2 points I wanted to touch on.

They bicker, they argue, they have their differences as brothers often do. When push comes to shove they have eachother's backs. They would probably never become friends or acquaintances had they not been brothers, but they are family and they do need and use eachother from time to time. In the Hound episode, Sherlock uses Mycroft's pass and then Mycroft pulls strings and gets Sherlock and John access to the facility anyway.

The other point, following canon, Mycroft was the one who knew Sherlock was alive and helped him make the necessary arrangements to help him fake his death and go on with his new life. So it would make perfect sense in this series' canon for him to be involved.

 

March 5, 2012 4:42 am  #6


Re: D'you think Mycroft is involved?

Davina wrote:

Yes. Mycroft is no fool. He practically is the British Government, according to Sherlock. He, like Sherlock, despises sentiment and like Sherlock will do what others will not do.

Mycroft won't do what others won't do; he's actually quite lazy compared to Sherlock. he never dirties his hands nor can he afford to do so. That's when he calls on Sherlock.


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Also, please note that sentences can also end in full stops. The exclamation mark can be overused.
Sherlock Holmes 28 March 13:08

Mycroft’s popularity doesn’t surprise me at all. He is, after all, incredibly beautiful, clever and well-dressed. And beautiful. Did I mention that?
--Mark Gatiss

"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I’m not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert McCloskey
 

March 5, 2012 4:48 am  #7


Re: D'you think Mycroft is involved?

BrandoMan13 wrote:

The other point, following canon, Mycroft was the one who knew Sherlock was alive and helped him make the necessary arrangements to help him fake his death and go on with his new life. So it would make perfect sense in this series' canon for him to be involved.

Don't count on Moftiss following everything in the canon to the letter! At some stage, they're going to get us on that one.
In this case, while I believe they will stick to it, there is always a chance they will not.
"Why?" you may ask.
Because this series is about a younger Sherlock. He is brasher and more unpredictable at times than the older version. Moftiss are showing us a developing genius here, Sherlock still has some polishing to do to himself before becoming the type of man in the canon.
As a younger version, he may decide he can do this on his own, without Big Brother's help. And he probably could to a point, but eventually he will need Mycroft's help. I've always believed Mycroft helped him, but there is still a possibility that brash young Sherlock will try one ego trip too many.

See? We may think we have solved things, but we should never close our minds off to other possibilities. That is when we stop observing and start merely looking.


____________________________________________________________________________________________
Also, please note that sentences can also end in full stops. The exclamation mark can be overused.
Sherlock Holmes 28 March 13:08

Mycroft’s popularity doesn’t surprise me at all. He is, after all, incredibly beautiful, clever and well-dressed. And beautiful. Did I mention that?
--Mark Gatiss

"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I’m not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert McCloskey
 

March 5, 2012 5:07 am  #8


Re: D'you think Mycroft is involved?

kazza474 wrote:

BrandoMan13 wrote:

The other point, following canon, Mycroft was the one who knew Sherlock was alive and helped him make the necessary arrangements to help him fake his death and go on with his new life. So it would make perfect sense in this series' canon for him to be involved.

Don't count on Moftiss following everything in the canon to the letter! At some stage, they're going to get us on that one.
In this case, while I believe they will stick to it, there is always a chance they will not.
"Why?" you may ask.
Because this series is about a younger Sherlock. He is brasher and more unpredictable at times than the older version. Moftiss are showing us a developing genius here, Sherlock still has some polishing to do to himself before becoming the type of man in the canon.
As a younger version, he may decide he can do this on his own, without Big Brother's help. And he probably could to a point, but eventually he will need Mycroft's help. I've always believed Mycroft helped him, but there is still a possibility that brash young Sherlock will try one ego trip too many.

See? We may think we have solved things, but we should never close our minds off to other possibilities. That is when we stop observing and start merely looking.

Anything is possible, but even our young Sherlock has shown he is willing to ask for help when he absolutely needs it. It is farily if not 100% certain that he asked for Molly's assistance. He has asked for help before, and from Mycroft of all people.

 

March 5, 2012 5:31 am  #9


Re: D'you think Mycroft is involved?

Oh I have no doubt about him asking for help on numerous occasions, not so much when 'he absolutely needs it' as much as 'it's the most sensible thing to do'. And as I said, I believe he has this time.
But I won't be surprised if they turn the tables on that one at all.


____________________________________________________________________________________________
Also, please note that sentences can also end in full stops. The exclamation mark can be overused.
Sherlock Holmes 28 March 13:08

Mycroft’s popularity doesn’t surprise me at all. He is, after all, incredibly beautiful, clever and well-dressed. And beautiful. Did I mention that?
--Mark Gatiss

"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I’m not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert McCloskey
 

March 5, 2012 5:44 am  #10


Re: D'you think Mycroft is involved?

While running handcuffed, John suggests (and thus maybe "plants" this idea into Sherlock’s): “Mycroft. He can help us.† which Sherlock turns down: "It’s not the time now for a family reconciliation." (paraphrasing, off to work in a minute!)
Not NOW, but maybe… laterz?


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John: "Have you spoken to Mycroft, Molly, uh, anyone?"
Mrs Hudson: "They don’t matter. You do."


I BELIEVE IN SERIES 5!




                                                                                                                  
 

March 5, 2012 5:51 am  #11


Re: D'you think Mycroft is involved?

Well it wasn't the time. Do you think the police wouldn't think to check on Mycroft to see if that is where Sherlock ran to?
And the risk of calling him would have been too great. He works for the Government and those people tap each other's phones.


____________________________________________________________________________________________
Also, please note that sentences can also end in full stops. The exclamation mark can be overused.
Sherlock Holmes 28 March 13:08

Mycroft’s popularity doesn’t surprise me at all. He is, after all, incredibly beautiful, clever and well-dressed. And beautiful. Did I mention that?
--Mark Gatiss

"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I’m not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert McCloskey
 

March 5, 2012 6:16 am  #12


Re: D'you think Mycroft is involved?

tobeornot221b wrote:

While running handcuffed, John suggests (and thus maybe "plants" this idea into Sherlock’s): “Mycroft. He can help us.��  which Sherlock turns down: "It’s not the time now for a family reconciliation." (paraphrasing, off to work in a minute!)
Not NOW, but maybe… laterz?

If Mycroft is in on Sherlock's plan, which I think he is. Then it is possible that part of the plan was to make Mycroft almost seem like the bad guy in John's eyes.

 

March 5, 2012 7:05 am  #13


Re: D'you think Mycroft is involved?

John's a grown man, he doesn't need to be fooled into thinking anyone is 'the bad guy'.
Also Sherlock would see that as a waste of time and valuable mind power to bother with that. What possible reason would there be to make Mycroft look like the bad guy anway??


____________________________________________________________________________________________
Also, please note that sentences can also end in full stops. The exclamation mark can be overused.
Sherlock Holmes 28 March 13:08

Mycroft’s popularity doesn’t surprise me at all. He is, after all, incredibly beautiful, clever and well-dressed. And beautiful. Did I mention that?
--Mark Gatiss

"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I’m not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert McCloskey
 

March 5, 2012 7:16 am  #14


Re: D'you think Mycroft is involved?

kazza474 wrote:

John's a grown man, he doesn't need to be fooled into thinking anyone is 'the bad guy'.
Also Sherlock would see that as a waste of time and valuable mind power to bother with that. What possible reason would there be to make Mycroft look like the bad guy anway??

I was thinking that perhaps Sherlock told Mycroft to feed Moriarity information, knowing he could use it against him later on. I could be way off, just a thought.

It's not so much to fool John into thinking he is a bad guy, what I was trying to say is that it made it seem as if Mycroft was the person responsible for the whole situation.

I was also thinking when he apologizes to John, maybe he was apologizing for the pain he knows he and Sherlock are about to put him through.

Just opinions.

I guess a better way of wording it would have been to say that it made Mycroft look as if he was the one at fault, not the bad guy per se

 

March 5, 2012 7:41 am  #15


Re: D'you think Mycroft is involved?

Part of my theory all along has been that Sherlock and Mycroft knew Moriarty wasn't going to just 'go away' after the Great Game and the Scandal things. So they had to eliminate him somehow. Psychological profiling would have shown him to be an egomaniac; exploiting that would be the key. Best way to exploit an ego in order to exterminate it would be to over inflate it.
While Sherlock was off skipping through the moors with John and a puppy dog, Mycroft would start agitating Moriarty. He got him locked up, pressured him etc but got nowhere.
So then he 'upped' the volume and fed him some possibly false information.

The fact being that Sherlock and Mycroft planned this together. In all of that, John wouldn't have known anything was going on. Except that he forgot Sherlock never wanted to be a hero.
Sherlock played along with the hero thing with just enough complaining to seem genuine to John.
Sherlock knew very early that this whole thing would affect John :
"That bothers you, what people think of me?"

Apologising for the pain he caused? No, not Sherlock. He logically knew John would get over it soon enough.

Sherlock may have seemed to become 'more human' as this series moved on, but he is still Sherlock. I think again this is where a lot of fans are coming unstuck, they are attributing too much 'normal' to Sherlock. Experiencing different emotions doesn't mean he will suddenly have all these emotional thoughts. They are just experiences that he will file in his hard drive in case he is ever in need of them.


____________________________________________________________________________________________
Also, please note that sentences can also end in full stops. The exclamation mark can be overused.
Sherlock Holmes 28 March 13:08

Mycroft’s popularity doesn’t surprise me at all. He is, after all, incredibly beautiful, clever and well-dressed. And beautiful. Did I mention that?
--Mark Gatiss

"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I’m not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert McCloskey
 

March 5, 2012 7:59 am  #16


Re: D'you think Mycroft is involved?

Remember what Sherlock says about the weakness of psychopaths and serial killers? They crave fame and attention and applause. He hasn't conveniently forgotten this during The Reichenbach Fall. He knows that Moriarty is a psychopath and that he enjoys killing, albeit vicariously e.g. Study in Pink as the cabbie's sponsor & using assassins. Remember he tells Sherlock that he doesn't like to get his own hands dirty. Gradually Moriarty is encouraged to show his hand more and more as the two series progress. He kills the old blind lady for describing him and then later appears in person to warn Sherlock off- 'back off, my dear'. His weakness is exploited. He think he only has one weakness 'I'm soooo changeable' but he doesn't only have one weakness, does he?! He is just too conceited to realise.


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Don't make people into heroes John. Heroes don't exist and if they did I wouldn't be one of them.
 

March 5, 2012 8:02 am  #17


Re: D'you think Mycroft is involved?

Oh yes, Moriarty loves an audience. Sherlock told him that in the tea party scene.


____________________________________________________________________________________________
Also, please note that sentences can also end in full stops. The exclamation mark can be overused.
Sherlock Holmes 28 March 13:08

Mycroft’s popularity doesn’t surprise me at all. He is, after all, incredibly beautiful, clever and well-dressed. And beautiful. Did I mention that?
--Mark Gatiss

"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I’m not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert McCloskey
 

March 5, 2012 8:06 am  #18


Re: D'you think Mycroft is involved?

Yes, I suppose he observes how other peoples emotions effect them and then uses it to his own advantage when he needs to. Although he must feel some "sentiment" otherwise he wouldn't have gone through with the jump...he does still need "friends".

I like the idea of Moftiss surprising us by doing something totally non-Canon, even if they probably haven't on this particular one.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.

Independent OSAJ Affiliate

     Thread Starter
 

March 5, 2012 12:10 pm  #19


Re: D'you think Mycroft is involved?

As part of my on-going research of the Richard Brook newspaper thing and the degree of involvement of Mycroft I am off to watch this episode AGAIN!


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Don't make people into heroes John. Heroes don't exist and if they did I wouldn't be one of them.
 

March 5, 2012 5:17 pm  #20


Re: D'you think Mycroft is involved?

Research completed- with ordinary life interrupting a bit.

Mycroft has a copy of the newspaper about the expose by Richard Brook when John visits him at the Diogenes club. He specifically draws John's attention to the article and names Richard Brook, asking John whether the name rings any bells. John suggests on old school friend of Sherlock's perhaps, a suggestion which Mycroft finds laughable. Mycroft then goes on to warn John about the assassins in the vicinity of 221B Baker Street. Clearly Mycroft expects John to warn Sherlock about the assassins, does he also expect John to warn Sherlock about the forthcoming newspaper article and the involvement of Richard Brook? Mycroft makes it clear that he is more than fully aware of the danger Moriarty poses towards Sherlock. When John queries who is behind the assassins Mycroft immediately states that if it is not Moriaty behind the assassins, then who? Sherlock realised the Richard Brook/Reichenbach connection, it is quite possible that Mycroft did too.

Later it would appear that Mycroft has foolishly given Moriarty all the details of his brother's life in return for ... not very much it would appear. Remember he states that the security service know about 'people like James Moriarty' and that they watch them. Mycroft must be aware that Richard Brook and Moriarty are linked, at least in some way, when the newspaper article is going to be published. Mycroft is a highly intelligent, devious and experienced lead player in the security service with links to others around the world, remember Sherlock's witicism about him freelancing for the CIA?

Whilst it is tempting to see Jim Moriarty as the sole protagonist in this perhaps, as is suggested in Study in Pink and also in the courtroom scene by Sherlock himself, it is much more likely that he is a part of an organisation. Sherlock calls it a 'criminal web', with Moriarty the 'spider' at its centre. How did Sherlock know this? Clearly he has been doing his research.

What do you think?


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Don't make people into heroes John. Heroes don't exist and if they did I wouldn't be one of them.
 

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