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February 21, 2012 2:47 am  #1


The first scene with Sherlock craving for a smoke/a case.

I thought I would mention this. Nothing wrong with it and no clues to anything in it.
Let me remind you of what I am talking about, it is after he comes in all covered in pig blood with his harpoon.
He looks for smokes, can't find them etc.

*oh BTW* Do you realise this scene proves Sherlock to be a liar in 'Scandal'?

SHERLOCK (intensely): Get me some.
JOHN (more loudly): No. (He points sternly at him.) Cold turkey, we agreed, no matter what.
(Irritated, Sherlock leans the harpoon against the table.)
JOHN: Anyway, you’ve paid everyone off, remember? No-one within a two mile radius’ll sell you any.
SHERLOCK: Stupid idea. Whose idea was that?
(John looks round at him and clears his throat pointedly. Sherlock looks towards the door.)
SHERLOCK (shouting): Mrs Hudson!
(He starts hurling paperwork off the table as he searches desperately for what he needs.)
JOHN: Look, Sherlock, you’re doing really well. Don’t give up now.
SHERLOCK (frantically as he continues his search): Tell me where they are. Please. Tell me.
(As John remains silent, Sherlock straightens up and then turns his most appealing puppy-dog eyes on him, hesitating before he speaks and almost forming the word a couple of times before actually speaking it.)
SHERLOCK: Please.
JOHN: Can’t help, sorry.


He begged John for some smokes .......... TWICE!!!!!


Anyway, back on track here.
When Sherlock sits down and starts stamping his feet, twiddling his thumbs, did anyone else find that a bit 'over the top'?
I know, as an on again/off again quitting smoker, I can be pretty on edge when I can'y have a smoke and I probably could carry on that way a bit. But for Sherlock I just thought it was a bit 'over the top'. Whenever I rewatch it, I try to skip that part because it just REALLY annoys me.


____________________________________________________________________________________________
Also, please note that sentences can also end in full stops. The exclamation mark can be overused.
Sherlock Holmes 28 March 13:08

Mycroft’s popularity doesn’t surprise me at all. He is, after all, incredibly beautiful, clever and well-dressed. And beautiful. Did I mention that?
--Mark Gatiss

"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I’m not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert McCloskey
 

February 21, 2012 5:39 am  #2


Re: The first scene with Sherlock craving for a smoke/a case.

To my mind, nearly EVERYTHING in this flat scene is over the top and a bit exaggerated, "gigantic, monstrous"! 
Like "threatening" Mrs. Hudson with a harpoon, "Call Lestrade - an escaped rabbit!", Sherlock's acting like mad and "showing off" when it isn't really necessary - poor Henry! -, all the blood, the TV presenter's sinister innuendos.

It's like a forerunner for things to come. Gatiss is preparing us - and Sherlock - for something very terrifying...

Last edited by tobeornot221b (February 21, 2012 5:40 am)


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John: "Have you spoken to Mycroft, Molly, uh, anyone?"
Mrs Hudson: "They don’t matter. You do."


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February 21, 2012 11:31 am  #3


Re: The first scene with Sherlock craving for a smoke/a case.

I dunno, I think Sherlock is quite an obsessive person and he also has an addictive personality type, so if he became obsessed with the idea of having a smoke and couldn't get one IMMEDIATELY, then I can believe that he would behave like that.

Also, it could be possible he's just doing that on purpose to annoy John into giving him the cigarettes, or to try and make John feel sorry for him and give in!


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February 21, 2012 12:51 pm  #4


Re: The first scene with Sherlock craving for a smoke/a case.

Also it is relevant that he has obviously had some sort of drug habit in the past. Evidence his action when the police do the drugs bust search of his flat in series 1 Study in Pink. John is leaping to his defence and saying that such a raid is ridiculous nonsense but it is quite clear from Sherlock's reaction that he does have a bit of a 'history" here. 'You might want to shut up now John!'

Although now 'clean' - his words- he has an addictive personality and his withdrawing from cigarette smoking is perhaps tainted and exacerbated by his experience withdrawing from the other drug(s).

This is a direct link to the original Conan Doyle Sherlock Holmes who is also a drug addict, cocaine and a Nicotine addict, in his case smoking a pipe. He is equally over-the-top in his behaviour at such manic times.

Sherlock's behaviour whilst withdrawing from cigarette smoking is, perhaps, an exaggerated version of what many people are like when they give up smoking. But then he has an exaggerated personality. We also never see him smoke, apart from the one scene outside the morgue when Mycroft gives him a cigarette as a present. He could have been a 100 a day man in which case I guess he would be quite aggressive about it.


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February 21, 2012 2:34 pm  #5


Re: The first scene with Sherlock craving for a smoke/a case.

I think I didn't explain that well at all.

I know what I am like when quitting or wanting a smoke and can't have one. His behaviour wasn't far from what I am like trust me.
Maybe that is what I find so irritating about the scene? I don't know.

His acting badly toward Henry was normal for him. This dopey guy comes along with a silly tale of 'spooky things' going on; yep I'd be just as rude I think. I'd probably slap his face and tell him to get a grip on things, lol.

Oh and as I have said before, don't get carried away with the drugs stuff from the original canon, it has been blown out of proportion really. It wasn't as prominent as people seem to think. he only used it occasionally and it wasn't illegal to do so at that time.
So to have him use what are now illegal drugs would be against the grain of the original stories really.

However Moftiss have alluded to some kind of 'problem' from his past, they just haven't stated what it is ...... yet. When Irene 'died' the first time, he had a network of friends around watching him after he was 'tested' by Mycroft with the cigarette. But that doesn't necessarily mean drugs.

But back to what I was trying to convey, the opening scene just irked me and didn't 'feel ' like high quality viewing ..... I think that is what I mean, lol.


____________________________________________________________________________________________
Also, please note that sentences can also end in full stops. The exclamation mark can be overused.
Sherlock Holmes 28 March 13:08

Mycroft’s popularity doesn’t surprise me at all. He is, after all, incredibly beautiful, clever and well-dressed. And beautiful. Did I mention that?
--Mark Gatiss

"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I’m not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert McCloskey
     Thread Starter
 

February 21, 2012 3:18 pm  #6


Re: The first scene with Sherlock craving for a smoke/a case.

Yeah, I think you mentioned that on that other thread about drugs...it'll be interesting to see whether they develop it any further or whether some kind of problem in the past will just be alluded to but never revealed.

Like you said, it was quite common place for people to take opium and narcotics in the 1800s so wasn't as big a deal as people make out, but most people still remember that fact about Holmes so maybe Moftiss just stuck some scenes in as a little nod towards it but without going over the top.

I do quite like that addictive side of his personality though as it shows he's human and prone to weakness like the rest of us.


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February 21, 2012 8:46 pm  #7


Re: The first scene with Sherlock craving for a smoke/a case.

The thing with Sherlock is that he gets very, very bored. As Moriarty, and to a certain extent Donovan, understand he will engage in certain activities to alleviate boredom-Moriarty does the same.


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February 22, 2012 7:45 pm  #8


Re: The first scene with Sherlock craving for a smoke/a case.

That's why they make such good arch enemies!


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March 28, 2012 5:02 pm  #9


Re: The first scene with Sherlock craving for a smoke/a case.

Hey, btw, when he comes in all covered in pig blood with his harpoon... is it a reference of any of the books or stories? I really don't know, probably didn't read it.


When you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.
 

March 28, 2012 5:06 pm  #10


Re: The first scene with Sherlock craving for a smoke/a case.

Hi, SussexieVampire, it's in "The Adventure of Black Peter".


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John: "Have you spoken to Mycroft, Molly, uh, anyone?"
Mrs Hudson: "They don’t matter. You do."


I BELIEVE IN SERIES 5!
http://up.picr.de/25572077rl.jpg



                                                                                                                  
 

March 28, 2012 6:25 pm  #11


Re: The first scene with Sherlock craving for a smoke/a case.

tobeornot221b wrote:

Hi, SussexieVampire, it's in "The Adventure of Black Peter".

Thank you tobeornot221b, I shall read it! Btw, I love your signature, Queen + Sherlock is the perfect combination ever.


When you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.
 

March 28, 2012 6:49 pm  #12


Re: The first scene with Sherlock craving for a smoke/a case.

In Stucy in Pink he has 3 nicotine patches on, a reference to a 3 pipe problem in the original canon.

Also during the police raid in Study in Pink, John is outraged by the drugs bust and starts to tell the police how riidiculous the idea is, at which point Sherlock tells him that he might want to drop that line and when John looks at him quizzically he tells him to shut up. He then says to Lestrwde that he is 'clean' to which Lestrade queries whether his flat is.

Sherlock then uses the fact that he no longer smokes &is wearing a nicotine patch as 'proof' that he is clean.

Finally the police would not be able to make a drugs bust/search without reasonable grounds for doing so, which would suggest a previous history.

It's all pretty subtle but it is all there in the background.


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March 28, 2012 7:39 pm  #13


Re: The first scene with Sherlock craving for a smoke/a case.

Yeah, and there's another hint to it in Scandal, when Mycroft gives Sherlock the cigaretts then John asks "are you sure tonight's a danger night?" - they're worried he might "fall off the waggon" as they call it over here.


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March 28, 2012 9:22 pm  #14


Re: The first scene with Sherlock craving for a smoke/a case.

Yes that's interesting because Mycroft offers Sherlock the cigarette as a sort of test as to how weak his resolve is. Mycroft knows that Sherlock will be affected by Irene Adler's death and as a result will be more likely to want to smoke. Even though they have the discussion about whether there is something wrong with them both because they do not 'feel' like other people who 'care so much'. As Moriarty is aware Sherlock does have a heart, even though he wishes he didn't. After Sherlock accepts the cigarette Mycroft phones John to warn him that Sherlock will want to smoke another one, most likely, when he gets home.

What I like about the following scene is that John and Mrs. Hudson think they have been really careful not to disturb things whilst they are looking for a hidden stash of fags but as soon as Sherlock asks in he knows that things are not the same and mutters about hoping that they have not ruined the order of his sock drawer this time!


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March 28, 2012 10:11 pm  #15


Re: The first scene with Sherlock craving for a smoke/a case.

I always interpreted the scene with Mycroft offering Sherlock a cig to test his resolve, and then telling John, there might be a danger night, that John and Mrs. H were conducting a private drugs bust, so to speak, meaning they were looking for more serious things than fags, and apparently not for the first time, i.e the remark about the sock index. Mycroft would probably not ask John, who had other plans, to stay with Sherlock in a 'danger night' just because he was afraid, he'd start to smoke again. But, as you said, MoGiss are subtle with the drug allegations, since ACD never intended to show Holmes as a full blown junkie, as some more recent interpretations have done.
I find this scene rather touching, because it shows Mycroft has a heart for his little brother. He DOES care, even if caring is not an advantage.

Last edited by sherlocked (March 28, 2012 10:12 pm)

 

May 28, 2012 2:28 am  #16


Re: The first scene with Sherlock craving for a smoke/a case.

The thing about Sherlock's addiction is that the writers have to maintain what I guess I want to call a "balance" between Sherlock being an addict with an obviously very addictive personality, and cocaine/heroin addiction being a real social stigma these days. He's obviously already an outcast, but he goes from being an aloof asshole to being a junkie if he's on any controlled substance.

I think the tobacco is a perfect compromise because, usually, smoking cigarettes doesn't have the same stigma attached to it, even though people don't usually approve (same with opium in those days—bad, nasty habit but not illegal) Sherlock says as much in Pink.


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Initials SH and proud owner of a viola named Watson.

Potential flatmates should know the worst about each other.

It's a three patch problem.

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May 28, 2012 3:27 am  #17


Re: The first scene with Sherlock craving for a smoke/a case.

Yeah that is exactly their point.
The use of cocaine etc back in that age wasn't 'evil' etc but was 'frowned upon'.
Hard to think of an equivalent nowadays, perhaps wife swapping??? Completely different type of thing, but people know it happens, just not in plain sight.

Moftiss don't want to have their 'hero' encouraging something so detrimental to personal health & society.


____________________________________________________________________________________________
Also, please note that sentences can also end in full stops. The exclamation mark can be overused.
Sherlock Holmes 28 March 13:08

Mycroft’s popularity doesn’t surprise me at all. He is, after all, incredibly beautiful, clever and well-dressed. And beautiful. Did I mention that?
--Mark Gatiss

"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I’m not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert McCloskey
     Thread Starter
 

May 28, 2012 7:01 am  #18


Re: The first scene with Sherlock craving for a smoke/a case.

The cigarettes thing is a good way of handling it although House dealt with the addiction side pretty bluntly- they wouldn't want to copy that though anyway.


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Don't make people into heroes John. Heroes don't exist and if they did I wouldn't be one of them.
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May 28, 2012 4:09 pm  #19


Re: The first scene with Sherlock craving for a smoke/a case.

Yeah, I started watching the first season of House a little while after I starting watching Sherlock, and I thought that they really dealt with it very cleverly. While wife swapping is definitely frowned upon these days, I think the closest we get to the addiction canon Sherlock had is with scrips. Because, much like cocaine and morphine in those days, doctors can argue fiercely over what the effects of opiates, painkillers, and antidepressants can be on patients.

Watson says in Sign that he worries about the long-term effects addiction will have on Holmes, and in that regard he was very much ahead of his time. I thought it was funny when I read that the opening scene of Sign is almost always omitted from children's editions of the canon. It makes sense, but I don't think children in the modern day would be in any way tempted to emulate any of those habits, because the entire nature of addiction is different today.

You have a point when you say that there are lots of things similar to that today that are just sort of taboo to talk about. Wife swapping, scrips addiction, smoking habit, alcoholism; none of them are illegal, but they are quite nasty and not the sort of thing people will take lightly or talk about casually. The Victorians would keep those kinds of things under wraps, much like we do, but there were no support groups and there was no addiction education as a child. Together society and individuals denied the problem, and today it's only individuals that keep it hidden.

Apologies for my long-windedness!


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Initials SH and proud owner of a viola named Watson.

Potential flatmates should know the worst about each other.

It's a three patch problem.

I didn't know; I saw.
 

May 28, 2012 7:01 pm  #20


Re: The first scene with Sherlock craving for a smoke/a case.

Point of reference in the original ACD stories for addiction, apart from Sherlock Holmes's own penchant for cocaine would be the story of The Man With the Twisted Lip.

Told, as usual, from the viewpoint of Doctor Watson it is clear what Sir ACD thought of opium addiction and its effects. Sherlock Holmes also mentions that Doctor Watson has imparted his medical opinion upon the effects of his indulgences.

In the story Isa Whitney '...found, as so many more have done, that the practice (of smoking opium) is easier to attain than to get rid of, and for many years he continued to be a slave to the drug, an object of mingled horror and pity to his friends and relatives. I can see him now, with yellow, pasty face, drooping lids, and pin-point pupils, all huddled up in a chair, the wreck and ruin of a noble man....As the burning poison waxed or waned in the bowls of the metal pipes.' there is also a detailed description of the behaviour and attitudes of the addicts within the opium den.

A distraught wife enters Watson's  surgery asking him for help in finding her opium addicted husband and bringing him home to her. He has been missing for days.

When Watson finds the addicted man he is looking for the reaction is an upsetting one, '"I thought it was Wednesday. It is Wednesday . What d'you want to frighten the chap for?" He sank his face o to his arms and began to sob in a high treble.' The man thinks it is Wenesday whereas it is actually Friday. Smoking the opium pipes has made him lose all track of time.

Clearly ACD is very aware of the effects of opium addiction both for the addicts and for their families. No doubt this is at least partly due to his own medical training. If his view reflects that of most late Victorians then addiction of this kind was clearly frowned upon, if it was not then perhaps he was using the stories as a means of educating people about the dangers of such addictions.


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Don't make people into heroes John. Heroes don't exist and if they did I wouldn't be one of them.
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