BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » A little question..

veecee · July 6, 2012 11:33 pm

Meaning he would do anything to attain his ends, maybe?

And that scene, him being escorted out, belongs in the Favorite Moments thread if they're not already there.

Arya · July 7, 2012 6:25 pm

I think that scene already is.

Now that I think about it, the whole "you are me" thing is a little paradoxical. Sammy mentioned the moment that Moriarty realizes that Sherlock is him, that he would do anything to attain his ends. But Sherlock's doing anything he can because if he doesn't, either he or his friends are going to die; therefore Sherlock isn't Moriarty, because Moriarty doesn't care about dying, and he doesn't have friends.

Does that make any sense?

Sammy · July 7, 2012 9:05 pm

Yes, it does.
I never thought that Sherlock believed the "I am you" himself in the first place. He just said it to convince Moriarty that he was, in fact, like him.

sherlockskitty · July 8, 2012 12:40 am

A NET? I never thot of that. but now that that's been theorized, I am very inclined to believe that Sherlock KNEW he was gonna have to jump, so he arranged for a net. then he rolled off, w/o thinking of how his body would lay. I was curious about this point myself. good question, and good possible answers.

Davina · July 8, 2012 2:42 pm

If it was a net it is just possible that it could be rigged above the ground, say a single storey up. This would still be obscured by the building in front, would break Sherlock's fall so he could just swing off the end to the ground. It would still appear to people that he had fallen the whole way. John sees him jump and will of course assume he has fallen the whole way down to the ground. The man who points out that Sherlock came from there pointing above him could be an innocent passer-by or a stooge of some kind. No one is actually looking up are they. They are all looking at Sherlock on the ground and dealing with the aftermath. If someone's seen to jump you assume they fall. 'Falling is just like flying'. Sherlock knows how to take a fall from a shorter height because he does Judo.

This is just me thinking aloud about it.

Ideas?

I've a terrible suspicion this should be posted on the theories thread! Eek!

Last edited by Davina (July 8, 2012 4:33 pm)

Arya · July 8, 2012 4:29 pm

That makes more sense than the net being held by the homeless network on the ground...

Sherlock Holmes · July 8, 2012 5:22 pm

The "I am you" thing has always confused me too...I mean, what was it that SUDDENLY convinced Jim that Sherlock was so like him...one minute he was all like "Nah you're ordinary on the side of the angels" and the next he's like "Ok going to shoot myself now"

Arya · July 8, 2012 5:42 pm

Well, he is crazy

BigFan · July 8, 2012 8:58 pm

Sherlock Holmes wrote:
The "I am you" thing has always confused me too...I mean, what was it that SUDDENLY convinced Jim that Sherlock was so like him...one minute he was all like "Nah you're ordinary on the side of the angels" and the next he's like "Ok going to shoot myself now"

Maybe he realized that he has to wait for the solution for such a long time....

Davina · July 9, 2012 11:05 am

Just prior to him shooting himself he says 'Bless you' to Sherlock. This immediately follows him looking deeply into Sherlock's eyes and at his face when he gives the 'I may be on the side of the angels' speech and has made it clear that he is not like his brother and that he is prepared to do anything. These points are the triggers for Moriarty's suicide.

Perhaps Moriarty thinks that Sherlock is prepared to jump with Moriarty attached (as it were). We saw Moriarty's fear when Sherlock held him over the edge earlier. Was this Sherlock ascertaining whether Moriarty feared falling himself? Choosing a method of suicide for one's arch enemy which is something one is terrified of oneself would be credible. Why did Sherlock grab Moriarty and hold him over the edge? He didn't just push him over did he...but he did get a fearful reaction from Moriarty. Doing something like this and then backing off is not really Sherlock's style.

I need to clarify my thoughts on this but it is niggling at me.

Arya · July 10, 2012 6:16 pm

Davina wrote:
Just prior to him shooting himself he says 'Bless you' to Sherlock. This immediately follows him looking deeply into Sherlock's eyes and at his face when he gives the 'I may be on the side of the angels' speech and has made it clear that he is not like his brother and that he is prepared to do anything. These points are the triggers for Moriarty's suicide.

Perhaps Moriarty thinks that Sherlock is prepared to jump with Moriarty attached (as it were). We saw Moriarty's fear when Sherlock held him over the edge earlier. Was this Sherlock ascertaining whether Moriarty feared falling himself? Choosing a method of suicide for one's arch enemy which is something one is terrified of oneself would be credible. Why did Sherlock grab Moriarty and hold him over the edge? He didn't just push him over did he...but he did get a fearful reaction from Moriarty. Doing something like this and then backing off is not really Sherlock's style.

I need to clarify my thoughts on this but it is niggling at me.

Good point. It doesn't make sense.

Why would Moriarty fear falling to his death more than shooting himself in the head?

Davina · July 10, 2012 9:03 pm

Because it isn't instant? Because there is a faint chance he might survive but be crippled?

kazza474 · July 11, 2012 3:00 am

Arya wrote:
Why would Moriarty fear falling to his death more than shooting himself in the head?

Moriarty CHOSE to shoot himself; he was in control of that action.
Sherlock is his enemy, he doesn't want his enemy deciding what will happen next. As far as Moriarty is concerned, this is HIS show, HE is in control of what will happen. He has schemed & lied thus far to have things go the way HE wants to go, he's not about to give in with that. Even his end will be how HE chooses, not Sherlock.

hypergreenfrog · July 11, 2012 9:36 am

I don't think it would be unusual for him to show fear when pushed towards the edge, even minutes before killing himself.
The fear of falling from great heights is triggered by the most basic human instinct, even a psychopath like Moriarty would not be able to override it.

As for why Sherlock would push him, I think it was partly to prove the point to Moriarty that he is not a "good guy" and may well be prepared to kill him if necessary, and partly out of anger and frustration. He does tend to get quite physical when he's angry.

Mattlocked · July 11, 2012 10:40 am

Yesterday I "went" there.
Put in Google 51.517745,-0.101106
Zoomed in a bit, took the little guy and stood in front ouf the building...
No exciting news, but I still love walking around on roads with Google maps... Well, this was from July 2008...

ancientsgate · July 27, 2012 2:28 pm

BigFan wrote:
Everytime I watch this scene, I wonder :

Sherlock jumps from the roof like this:

Almost on the ground:

Finally he is lying parallel to the house:

Makes no sense to me...

I don´t think that this is an important detail, but it occurred to me.

The continuity person should be fired. Either that or there was some kind of logistical reason why he had to fall like that (probably safest way for Ben to make the fall-- I still cannot believe he was brave enough to do that, and I don't care how many chains were suspending him-- eeeeek) and why they wanted him lying on his side later. A casual watcher of the show wouldn't give this more than a passing thought, if that. Only we crazy!fans watch the DVD over and over again and notice every little thing. *g*

sherlockian111 · January 24, 2013 3:32 am

I can just imagine, when the producers or whatever are going over the footage, some guy saying "oh, there's a continuity error, better edit that out" and the Moffat going "no, leave it in. it'll confuse the audience"