BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Violins, Phones etc.

hypergreenfrog · June 25, 2012 6:18 pm

I have just read the thread about mistakes in the Blind Banker, and it has made me wonder about how much (technical) accuracy we actually want or need in the series?

In general, I guess mistakes or inaccuracies are usually most annoying and disappointing when they hit close to home, i.e. when we feel misrepresented in some way. That's why the German tourists in the Blind Banker who couldn't even speak proper German made me cringe, whereas I presume that non-German-speakers probably didn't even notice (?).

I guess I am willing to accept a little less scientific accuracy in favour of suspense and dramatic style, or if it adds to the entertainment factor of the show. I loved the hostage/escape scene in Reichenbach, even though it was completely unrealistic.
On the other hand, I was slightly disappointed by the idea of a Chinese gangster waiting in dark with several buckets of black paint ready at hand, just in case Watson or Sherlock would show up...

So, how about you? Are you bothered by technical inaccuracies or lack of research? Would you say the show would be better if it was more accurate (e.g regarding the hospital lab, crime scenes, legal issues)? Should the writers consult experts, or would that take away from the fictional aspect of the show?
Looking forward to all your brilliant input!

imane nikko · June 25, 2012 9:09 pm

Hmm. That's a hard question. Everyone has their own areas of expertise, where a mistake will pull them out of the story. I posted about this in some other thread, but when my mom saw the "Vermeer" she laughed... because Vermeer was a portrait painter. There is *no way* he would have done a night landscape. For her that was an egregious error, but most people would just hear "famous painter" and skate right on over it.

The Chinese gang leader spending her time making origami (a Japanese art) lotuses to put on victims struck me as pretty absurd. The painted over wall was another annoying hole in a plot filled with lots and lots of them, but it's less a problem of expertise than of believability, so I don't know if it belongs in the same category.

For you, it's German tourists who aren't actually German (that actually bothers me too, now that I know about it... how hard would it be to get some German extras??).

I want them to put as much effort as is possible toward making things realistic, but I don't know what the limit is... once you go down the rabbit hole of "accuracy" there really is no bottom to it. Basically I just want them to run the scripts/casting choices by me so I'm not annoyed by anything.

Davina · June 25, 2012 9:15 pm

They would have had to get a German actor who is Equity registered for a speaking part. It is a delicate balancing act between accuracy and keeping the story flowing and not letting it get bogged down.

Irene Adler · June 25, 2012 9:16 pm

Well, I am not very picky and I don't really mind some inaccuracy from time to time (though it is too obvious or absurd). You're right, I didn't notice anything about the German tourists nos speaking proper German, probably if someone spoke a bad Spanish I could notice

I only have one little complaint, and it's little and probably stupid. But the way Sherlock held his violin bow in TGG felt completely unnatural. It gets better in ASiB and TRF. And sometimes the sound doesn't really match the bowing. Anyway it's not extremely bothering

kazza474 · June 26, 2012 2:08 am

There is a fine line between critiquing a production and just being nit picky; and lately I have seen much more of the latter than the former.
They're not making a documentary & they are not making a "how to" show; they are entertaining & telling stories.
But in this day & age everyone is a keyboard know-it-all; I have no idea how Moffat & Gatiss can stand being online actually, they must get thousands of silly things posted to them each day. Although I have seen a few where they have answered someone's 'nutjob' post & those people have ended up looking quite stupid in the end.

But back to believability, I haven't really had much of a problem with the scripts etc. Most things can have reasonable explanations given to them. It wouldn't matter how many 'experts' they brought in, someone would always say " that's not what that looks like" the answer to that is ... "Well yes it is in this instance dear".

I really laughed at criticisms of who did what, etc at the site of the 'suicide'. People have a set opinion on what happens at an accident scene & most of that has come from what they have seen ..... on TV.

My 'keyboard tongue' is bitten daily and slowly I am learning to sit back & let it slide. I am simply another person on a forum who may or may not know an explanation.
But one thing I am sure of, Moftiss DO have almost all bases covered & the ones who make the biggest mistakes are the fans. And I actually question that description of some - fans? yet they seem hell bent on showing how stupid Moftiss is?
I think not.

SusiGo · June 26, 2012 6:35 am

Yes, I laughed about the German tourists, too, because they sound so un-German. BTW, they did the same in "A game of shadows" with the German soldiers in the arms factory. Maybe it is due to purely bureaucratic reasons. But, Sammy, ToBe, do you remember what they made of the German tourists in the dubbed version? Can't remember at the moment, but they were definitely not German …

hypergreenfrog · June 26, 2012 10:04 am

I have yet to see "A Game of Shadows", but I take your word for it, SusiGo. If we were to write up a list of bad German accents in films and on TV, we'd have a full time occupation
IMO, the terrible misuse of the German language is only surpassed (or rather "subpassed", in this case) by the generic Russian grunt. Russian is a language of such beauty, it is much softer than German or English, but of course that does not fit in with the common perception of the "Russian gangster/soldier with a drinking habit" so let's throw in a few "schtschs" and "chrchz"-sounds to make it more obvious.
The irony is that in such cases, dubbed versions are sometimes better than the original. I wouldn't be surprised if the German tourists actually speak perfect French in the dubbing. Haven't seen it, though.

Come to think of it, anyone here able to comment on the Chinese spoken in Sherlock?

hepzibah · June 26, 2012 11:00 am

I guess it depends on your knowledge of the particular item or event. The only German I know are some swear words from watching Inspector Rex, so I had no idea about the German tourists. I also don't play the violin so had no idea about Benny's skill or lack of (funny to think that there is something he doesn't do perfectly, who knew!). I'm sure native Londoners can pick up discrepancies about how the boys get around etc.

BUT if there was something about posting on a web site of crazy Sherlock fans that was wrong, well, I'd be the first to jump on it, as it is my special area of expertise.

Last edited by hepzibah (June 27, 2012 4:06 am)

hypergreenfrog · June 26, 2012 11:19 am

They show Rex in Australia? Seriously?? I knew it was exported to Italy and Greece, but as far as Australia, wow.
Austria does not produce a lot of TV, and only very few shows ever end up getting shown anywhere outside the country (which may be for the best, considering the quality of certain shows), so to think that the Wurstsemmel eating dog made it that far is just amazing.

Sammy · June 26, 2012 9:42 pm

The German tourists are in fact french in the dubbing ;).
The spoke very poor German, I still don't get why they just picked some German actor...
It really bothers me when they don't pick natives (of whatever language) in movies or on TV.

Well, apart from that thing I'm okay with scientific inaccuracies or when a person is supposed to play an instrument but you can see that it's not completely right, as long as there still is an authenticity to it all. Errors are okay. In fact, errare humanum est.

Sherli Bakerst · June 26, 2012 11:27 pm

hypergreenfrog wrote:
Come to think of it, anyone here able to comment on the Chinese spoken in Sherlock?

I actually posted about that in the Blind Banker thread:
http://sherlock.boardhost.com/viewtopic.php?pid=9208#p9208
It's Post #26.

I had no idea about the German tourists or the violin playing. I like finding out these little snippets as it gives me insight into the making of the show.

But in some ways and/or for some people: Ignorance is bliss!

hepzibah · June 27, 2012 4:12 am

Yes, Froggie, Inspector Rex is hugely popular in Australia. It is shown on SBS which is a channel that specializes in foreign language TV for the huge immigrant communities we have here. It is in German with English subtitles. Just about all the foreign language shows are in their original language with subtitles, that's how we learn to swear in other languages. And they also show a lot of European programs with boobs and willies, which makes it popular with yet another audience.

Sherlock Holmes · June 27, 2012 4:43 am

The Moff is always right! Never criticise the Moff!

EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE

SusiGo · June 27, 2012 7:34 am

hepzibah wrote:
Yes, Froggie, Inspector Rex is hugely popular in Australia. It is shown on SBS which is a channel that specializes in foreign language TV for the huge immigrant communities we have here. It is in German with English subtitles. Just about all the foreign language shows are in their original language with subtitles, that's how we learn to swear in other languages. And they also show a lot of European programs with boobs and willies, which makes it popular with yet another audience.

Inspector Rex in Australia, that's really great. But now of course I'm wondering about the boobs and willies .

kazza474 · June 27, 2012 7:57 am

SusiGo wrote:
Inspector Rex in Australia, that's really great. But now of course I'm wondering about the boobs and willies .

Breasts and penises.
We don't have a lot of that on our TV Down Under.

SusiGo · June 27, 2012 8:01 am

kazza474 wrote:
SusiGo wrote:
Inspector Rex in Australia, that's really great. But now of course I'm wondering about the boobs and willies .
Breasts and penises.
We don't have a lot of that on our TV Down Under.

Er, I got your meaning . I was just wondering which shows you were hinting at. Didn't know we had so much of these in Europe .

Sherli Bakerst · July 29, 2012 4:55 pm

I introduced the show to my father recently; he enjoyed both series. He's a chemist and I wanted his opinion on the scientific writings that are shown in Hounds and TRF because I was curious if they were accurate or not. He said that some of the chemical notations were written correctly, a few weren't (because the numbers should have been subscript; that made me think subtext...), and others were "nonsense" (his word) and didn't have any meaning at all. I also asked him about the periodic elements table in Sherlock's bedroom and he said, "Well, that's one version of it." I took that to mean maybe it wasn't the most up-to-date version but as I didn't ask, I could be wrong.

That was all very interesting to find out. The show makes Sherlock out to be a chemical genius so I would have thought his scribblings would be scientifically correct, even if they do flash by on the screen quickly. I watched the US show Numb3rs and read that they had a mathematician on staff who made sure all the math equations actually made sense. I don't recall seeing anything similar in the credits for Sherlock.

Any thoughts about the use of chemistry in Sherlock the show and/or Sherlock the character's knowledge of and background in chemistry?

Davina · July 29, 2012 5:17 pm

I believe the periodic table on Sherlock's wall is an old one, maybe I heard this on a commentary? The idea was that an old version of the periodic table would be something that Sherlock would like adorning his bedroom wall.

Sherlock Holmes · July 29, 2012 7:49 pm

Sherli Bakerst wrote:
I introduced the show to my father recently; he enjoyed both series. He's a chemist and I wanted his opinion on the scientific writings that are shown in Hounds and TRF because I was curious if they were accurate or not. He said that some of the chemical notations were written correctly, a few weren't (because the numbers should have been subscript; that made me think subtext...), and others were "nonsense" (his word) and didn't have any meaning at all. I also asked him about the periodic elements table in Sherlock's bedroom and he said, "Well, that's one version of it." I took that to mean maybe it wasn't the most up-to-date version but as I didn't ask, I could be wrong.

That was all very interesting to find out. The show makes Sherlock out to be a chemical genius so I would have thought his scribblings would be scientifically correct, even if they do flash by on the screen quickly. I watched the US show Numb3rs and read that they had a mathematician on staff who made sure all the math equations actually made sense. I don't recall seeing anything similar in the credits for Sherlock.

Any thoughts about the use of chemistry in Sherlock the show and/or Sherlock the character's knowledge of and background in chemistry?

I like the sound of your father! I'm a bit of a chemistry geek myself and some of the inaccuracies are a little annoying, especially since it's such a big deal to Sherlock but I guess it's one of those things...if you weren't into that side of it, you probably wouldn't notice. I try not to let the little things bother me too much though, because it doesn't take away from the general enjoyment of the show.

I haven't seen any major plot holes that couldn't be explained away with a bit of thought. The factbthat Semtex doesn't explode when you shoot it kind of infuriates me but then in had to assume Sherlock is an accurate enough shot to be able to hit the detonator should he need to, or maybe he was bluffing all along. Sorry, I'm digressing...I started a whole thread about that in the Great Game section, lol.

The Doctor · July 30, 2012 2:17 am

Juuuust saying, this is what the canon says:

SHERLOCK HOLMES -- his limits.

1. Knowledge of Literature. -- Nil. 2. Philosophy. -- Nil. 3. Astronomy. -- Nil. 4. Politics. -- Feeble. 5. Botany. -- Variable. Well up in belladonna, opium, and poisons generally. Knows nothing of practical gardening. 6. Geology. -- Practical, but limited. Tells at a glance different soils from each other. After walks has shown me splashes upon his trousers, and told me by their colour and consistence in what part of London he had received them. 7. Chemistry. -- Profound. 8. Anatomy. -- Accurate, but unsystematic. 9. Sensational Literature. -- Immense. He appears to know every detail of every horror perpetrated in the century. 10. Plays the violin well. 11. Is an expert singlestick player, boxer, and swordsman. 12. Has a good practical knowledge of British law.

Also:

He was not studying medicine. He had himself, in reply to a question, confirmed Stamford's opinion upon that point. Neither did he appear to have pursued any course of reading which might fit him for a degree in science or any other recognized portal which would give him an entrance into the learned world. Yet his zeal for certain studies was remarkable, and within eccentric limits his knowledge was so extraordinarily ample and minute that his observations have fairly astounded me. Surely no man would work so hard or attain such precise information unless he had some definite end in view. Desultory readers are seldom remarkable for the exactness of their learning. No man burdens his mind with small matters unless he has some very good reason for doing so.

His ignorance was as remarkable as his knowledge. Of contemporary literature, philosophy and politics he appeared to know next to nothing. Upon my quoting Thomas Carlyle, he inquired in the naivest way who he might be and what he had done. My surprise reached a climax, however, when I found incidentally that he was ignorant of the Copernican Theory and of the composition of the Solar System. That any civilized human being in this nineteenth century should not be aware that the earth travelled round the sun appeared to be to me such an extraordinary fact that I could hardly realize it.