Sherlock Holmes wrote:

Hmm, the only female character in the canon that Holmes has any kind of respect for is Ms Adler, and obviously she's already been used.

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Yes, I can't think of one offhand, male or female. It was just a nice thought that there could have been I guess, lol.

As my username indicates, I'm a huge fan of Molly's. For several reasons that have already been mentioned in this really interesting thread.

I personally can really relate to her and I think she is a very fascinating character because, as we've seen brilliantly acted by Louise Brealey, she withholds this unconditional deep sort of loyalty and trust for Sherlock although he obviously didn't really earn much of it.

I think this kind of unconditional support is a very rare thing to appear, either in reality or in a series, because to me, it's basically something many people are trying to have for people they love, but somehow fail to maintain it because we all sometimes get caught up in things the other did that hurt us.

Molly, in my opinion, manages to step beyond that, probably being well aware of the fact that she's the only one to be able to help him in any way in his situation.

And beside all the scenes with her and Sherlock in TRF, which definitely belong to my favorite scenes of the show so far, I loved her in all her other appearances as well.

Just a few of my own personal thoughts...and kind of an explanation to my name...

kazza474 wrote:

Sumac60 wrote:

I actually don't see her as a damaged character.  Just misguided at first.  At the awful Christmas scene, you would swear she's been reading love advice from some magazine (Cosmo?) and Holmes (Ms Hudson too) reacts with what you'd expect of such a ludicrous picture.  Ms Hudson, though, being socialized, treats her kindly, but Sherlock isn't going to let it pass and calls her out on every last detail.

Hallelujah, yes!
I don't spend a lot of time 'working out' Molly as in real life someone like that would NOT last long around me. She appears to be a total product of too many copies of Cosmopolitan or similar magazine.
"Dress Like This to Catch Your Man"; "Unrequited Love? Here's 5 Fun Things To Do To Get HIM to Notice You", etc.
So "misguided" is a definitely good description.
The outfit at Xmas was WAY over the top for such a gathering that's for sure.

But he's calling everyone else out too, that evening...he's not suffering anybody's stupidity that night, if it's Watson's lack of staying power in love partners or Lestrade's innocent trust of his wife who is obviously cheating again.  Nobody in the room has the courage to knock his block off but Molly, who though quiveringly, does have the guts to tell him what he just did.  Everyone is resoundingly owed an apology, but she's the only one that gets one.

Yes, there is no singling out of Molly when it comes to Sherlock's observations. But to her credit she IS the only one who basically tells him where to go. Lestrade could have told him to mind his own business. John could have told him that his own lack of 'sense of family' meant he had NO right to make remarks on anyone's else's. And that at least he HAD a track record with woman, unlike Sherlock. Yet neither said a word. They have all seen how Sherlock will analyse a situation with uncanny accuracy but only Molly had the gumption to challenge him anyway.

She's growing, actually.

I would love to see her tell Sherlock to "f-off" in series three, and he'd respect her more for it, I'm sure.  We'll see!

Hmm, so as Sherlock matures in his life, so too do those around him.
I know Molly was popped in with no canon reference, but I am now wondering if there IS a character, male or female that in the canon stories Holmes has a respect for? It wouldn't be a planned thing that there was a similar person, but it would be uncanny to see Molly evolve to that sort of person. Unfortunately offhand, I can think of none.

All in all, thank you. You've at least 'plumped out' this character from the cardboard cut-out, typical low esteemed female that I believed she was & would remain. Unfortunately these 'sympathetic' characters are revered by the masses these days. "The underdog" really is the new sexy for so many. I personally cannot see anything to celebrate in a weak willed character.

Here's the really funny thing, Kazza...

At the party, Sherlock makes fun of Molly for that silly thing about making the lipstick match the wrapping on the gift (I kid you not, I have seen similar techniques lauded in silly women's mags) but then, Sherlock mentally uses the very same technique focusing on the gift from Adler that contains the cell phone.  You see a quick flash of her lips and the red package.  I don't know...I just find this kind of hilarious.  Has he "fallen" for this stupid thing or has Molly just given him a clue?

I don't "get" the way the phone present got there, though.

Hey, the forum's still awake!  Cool, because I watched "Scandal" a while ago and noticed a detail I can't figure out.  When Sherlock is examining the phone under the microscope, we assume it's the real phone, because why else would he be viewing it?  Also he has no reason to lie to Molly when he say's "it's a woman's".  But then when she inadvertently gives him an idea about the address as the password, he turns and goes into the cupboard (or something) curiously marked with the sign for radioactivity, then enters the address in that phone as a possible code, which of course is wrong.  Which phone is the real one now, then?  If he's creating a perfect copy to fool Adler, why look at the copy under the microscope?  And if the real one is under the microscope, why enter the code in the fake?

Or am I just blind and don't remember the scene?

Even I don't see Molly's character as "damaged" at all. And neither do I find her "weak-willed"! A person working in a morgue, dissecting bodies can't be weak-willed by any means.
But yes, it seems that she has dedicated a big portion of her life to her studies and work and therefore, she doesn't really know the 'science' of dealing with her emotions. Nevertheless, this girl surely has some guts and self respect for sure. After the insult that she received during the Christmas scene, her behaviour towards Sherlock definitely changed. In TRF, she was more interested in having her lunch than helping Sherlock initially. I don't know whether she's over her crush or not, but in TRF, it seemed that she had decided that she would not hesitate in speaking her mind regardless of what Sherlock says. The way Sherlock never stops once he decides to speak, Molly didn't stop either even after he suggested her indirectly to 'shut up' twice by saying that 'making conversation is not her area'...
I think Molly has understood now that Sherlock would probably never return her feelings so she should just not think in that direction and do anything to impress him.

No, these are just examples of how Sherlock manipulates people to do his bidding for him. They all come just before he asks her to do something r get something for him. Oldest trick in the book really; find a soft target and aim for it when needed.
He needs Molly to get what he needs done in the lab. He's not on staff at the hospital, so he has to get favours from somewhere. She is the obvious choice and so easily manipulated as he shows time & time again.
The "I need you" scene is just another of those manipulations really.

I disagree. In the scene in TRF when Sherlock tells Molly that she counts and that he has always trusted her, I saw that as very genuine. At that point he knows what he must do to prepare for the end game and he needs her help to do it. There is no subdefuge like when he compliments her hair to get her to pull out some bodies after their paperwork has gone through. He genuinely trusts her, and he wants her help. The fact that she steadfastly offers that help is not, in my iopinion, due to manipulation on his part. He says to her that if it turned out that he was all she thought he was or even all he though he was, would she still want to help him. He is being very up front and honest with her here, and she still asks him what he needs.
 

I have a slightly different opinion about Molly. At first I thought she is made to be the cute girl next door. Somebody to identify with. A perfectly normal young woman, except for working in a morgue.

Then I wondered why Sherlock treats her the way he does or did. He uses her, treats her badly and she doesn't mind. She does enjoy it. She might be a bit masochistic. Sherlock beats the corpse and she asks him out for a coffee. Maybe she sees something in Sherlock that he is not willing to provide. He knows that he needs her sometimes, so he trys not no react in a way he normally would: Expose her sexuality, humiliate her. Maybe he already did that in the past before we meet them in ASiP.

She chooses Jim Moriarty as boyfriend. In his disguise "Jim from IT" he is genuinely a nice guy, but we know that it is just the surface.
What if we also see just the surface of cute Molly?

In the Cristmas scene Molly arrives and Sherlock obviously can't appreciate her at all. I think he can see through her disguise. She looks like a Christmas present herself with the bow in her hair.

In Scandal when Sherlock does the x-ray in the lab: "We all do silly things ".
She might talk about herself. What kind of silly things does she do?

Finally in TRf she is herself for the first time when she talks about her father and offers help. And we get Sherlock being himself, too. They have both finally stopped playing. 


 

She possibly does have a title, it's just not used.
I think we may have got to Molly's Xmas plans...but the evening was interrupted.

In Germany you can be a physician/doctor or pathologist without necessaryly having to have the title "Dr."
Depends on the law. In Austria (I presume) you have to do another exam to get the title "Dr." before you can be a lawyer. In Germany that is not the case.
Don't know about the U.K.
Sherlock would say: " What does it (she) need a title for?"

Last edited by Be (June 17, 2013 12:07 pm)

Yes but friends/colleagues wouln't necessarily call them 'dr'.