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June 22, 2012 6:49 pm  #1


At the cemetery, do you think Sherlock was close enough to hear John?

Watched it for the umpteenth time last night, and I'd usually been looking at Sherlock's face when they showed him.  This tme I noticed John walking away in the background, and it seemed too far for Sherlock to have heard him. .

 

June 22, 2012 7:03 pm  #2


Re: At the cemetery, do you think Sherlock was close enough to hear John?

You're right... he does look too far away to overhear anything, which means that him being there is odd. Can't think why he'd be in the graveyard if he didn't think he could learn something... he's not the sentimental type, so it's unlikely to just be in the hopes of catching a glimpse of his friends.

Plus, he's completely undisguised. I suppose maybe he could pretend to be a ghost if anyone looked over at the wrong moment, presuming whoever caught him believed in ghosts, but regardless it seems like an awful risk to take merely for sentiment*.

Maybe this is the famous "out of character" moment?



*Please read that in appropriately scornful Sherlockian tones. 

Last edited by imane nikko (June 22, 2012 7:11 pm)

 

June 22, 2012 7:16 pm  #3


Re: At the cemetery, do you think Sherlock was close enough to hear John?

I have wondered how he came to be there at the same time as Watson and Mrs Hudson paid a visit to the grave. Unless he hangs out there on an almost permanent basis (a ghost would fit the bill nicely here  ) I suspect that he is in touch with someone who is privy to their movements. Best (more serious) suggestion ~ Mycroft?

I would have thought a disguise now that you mention it. Although maybe, if it was considered, it might have been thought to 'detract' from the speech John had just made.


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June 22, 2012 7:33 pm  #4


Re: At the cemetery, do you think Sherlock was close enough to hear John?

Mycroft would know they were going, but why would Sherlock have to be there to see them? Other than sentiment... what point is there to it?

Totally agree about a disguise taking away from that brilliantly wrenching performance by Martin Freeman.

Oh well. I'm sure they do make the *occasional* choice that's purely dramatic, with no reason behind it at all. Maybe he was just there to efficiently convey that he's not really dead.

 

June 22, 2012 7:50 pm  #5


Re: At the cemetery, do you think Sherlock was close enough to hear John?

I'm sure he was there at least partly for dramatic effect, although I think they'll need to explain it somehow in season 3.

He could easily be staking out his gravesite waiting for confederates of Moriarty's to show up. Still, kind of risky.

I think he'd have to have been too far away to hear John and Mrs. Hudson, or wouldn't they have seen him?

Although we haven't seen it yet, it's possible that Sherlock could lipread. I don't know if he was close enough for the average person to do so, but he does seem to have sharper than average eyes. Still, if that's it, we should have had some indication of his ability earlier.

It's also possible that the gravesite is bugged, but I doubt it.

In any case, he'd have to at least recognize the emotion indicated by John's actions, even if he couldn't hear the words, no?

 

June 22, 2012 7:50 pm  #6


Re: At the cemetery, do you think Sherlock was close enough to hear John?

I never thought about WHY Sherlock was at the graveyard until I read these posts but...

Sherlock has a habit of following John.  We know because John remarks on it in various episodes.  There's no reason to stop once John thinks Sherlock is dead.  In fact, it might be even more important to follow John, because Sherlock can find out if anyone on Moriarty's side is still interested in John.  After all, Sherlock wanted to make sure John and the others were safe; perhaps he's also following Mrs Hudson--who did in fact accompany John to the cemetery--and Lestrade. 

I think Sherlock didn't bother to wear a disguise because, in the past when he followed John, John never noticed.  He knew that he was being followed, but I bet he never caught Sherlock actually doing it.  So Sherlock could be pretty confident that he was hidden from John's view.  As for being too far away to hear what John was saying, I don't think it was necessary for Sherlock to hear John.  It was enough just to see him, and know what he was doing.

Perhaps, by following those people around for a certain length of time, Sherlock will determine whether or not they are still in any danger.  And if he decides they aren't, then that is when he will reveal himself to John and everyone else.

Last edited by Sherli Bakerst (June 22, 2012 7:52 pm)


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Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing.  -- Helen Keller
 

June 22, 2012 7:54 pm  #7


Re: At the cemetery, do you think Sherlock was close enough to hear John?

imane nikko wrote:

You're right... he does look too far away to overhear anything, which means that him being there is odd. Can't think why he'd be in the graveyard if he didn't think he could learn something... he's not the sentimental type, so it's unlikely to just be in the hopes of catching a glimpse of his friends.

Ah, but I think he is becomming sentimental, at least when it comes to John. 

And really, it's a television show so if the writers wanted Sherlock to hear, he heard.  . I thought about that just AFTER I posted this.

     Thread Starter
 

June 22, 2012 8:00 pm  #8


Re: At the cemetery, do you think Sherlock was close enough to hear John?

Sherli Bakerst wrote:

I never thought about WHY Sherlock was at the graveyard until I read these posts but...

Sherlock has a habit of following John.  We know because John remarks on it in various episodes.  There's no reason to stop once John thinks Sherlock is dead.  In fact, it might be even more important to follow John, because Sherlock can find out if anyone on Moriarty's side is still interested in John. 

[...]

Perhaps, by following those people around for a certain length of time, Sherlock will determine whether or not they are still in any danger.  And if he decides they aren't, then that is when he will reveal himself to John and everyone else.

I like this thinking, Sherli. It seemed totally improbable that he'd be gothing about in the graveyard post-Fall, but it's entirely probable that he'd be tailing John and Mrs. Hudson.

 

June 22, 2012 8:01 pm  #9


Re: At the cemetery, do you think Sherlock was close enough to hear John?

Sherli Bakerst wrote:

Sherlock has a habit of following John.  We know because John remarks on it in various episodes.  There's no reason to stop once John thinks Sherlock is dead.

Agree.  Plus, I think he's truly concerned about John.  Kind of a guardian angel hovering around when he can?

     Thread Starter
 

June 22, 2012 8:07 pm  #10


Re: At the cemetery, do you think Sherlock was close enough to hear John?

I may have said before on this forum, I find Sherlock's expression here difficult to read. A touch of resignation maybe that he has done what had to be done and there is no going back? When he turns away in the closing seconds does he turn towards someone? How did he get there? Couldn't have taken a taxi, taxi drivers read newspapers ~ Sherlock's suicide had recently been plastered all over the front of at least one popular paper. One of Mycroft's tinted window cars? I don't know, but I suspect that the fact that I am asking these questions 6 months after the last programme aired could be why they did it that way. A very long winded way of saying I think you are spot on with your deductions imane nikko.  .

Any thoughts on the above questions would be gratefully received.

Edit: To answer your original question 'Was Sherlock close enough to hear John?'. I thought so at the time and if that is correct (and I'm perfectly happy to believe it isn't) perhaps that is the reason for him being there.  All any of us can do is guess.

Last edited by JaneCo (June 22, 2012 8:14 pm)


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June 22, 2012 8:40 pm  #11


Re: At the cemetery, do you think Sherlock was close enough to hear John?

JaneCo wrote:

All any of us can do is guess.

And wait.   

     Thread Starter
 

June 22, 2012 8:50 pm  #12


Re: At the cemetery, do you think Sherlock was close enough to hear John?

I think Sherlock couldn't possibly hear John from the place he is standing. About lipreading... well, I guess John was giving him his back, wasn't he? But I'm not sure now.

I also think Sherlock could probably be there to meet someone. Mycroft, perhaps, or even Molly


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Waiting for a crazy man in a blue box to fall from the sky...

But the thing is, we've taken away all the things that can possibly have happened, so I suppose the only thing that's left, even though it seems really weird, must be the thing that did happen, in fact. (Miss Marple)

http://lavellesmiscellany.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/irene-adler.jpg?w=490&h=200&crop=1
 

June 22, 2012 8:53 pm  #13


Re: At the cemetery, do you think Sherlock was close enough to hear John?

And use the forum as a mutual support group  .


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June 22, 2012 11:51 pm  #14


Re: At the cemetery, do you think Sherlock was close enough to hear John?

At the risk of re-exposing my hope that Sherlock cares about John as a friend..I think he needed to see what John is going through emotionally. I don't think he was close enough to hear, but a picture tells the story.


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Disguise is always a self portrait
 

June 23, 2012 12:14 am  #15


Re: At the cemetery, do you think Sherlock was close enough to hear John?

Sentimental Pulse wrote:

At the risk of re-exposing my hope that Sherlock cares about John as a friend..I think he needed to see what John is going through emotionally. I don't think he was close enough to hear, but a picture tells the story.

I do think he's keeping an eye on his friends, too.

 

June 23, 2012 12:49 am  #16


Re: At the cemetery, do you think Sherlock was close enough to hear John?

Interesting to think about.

Perhaps Sherlock wants to protect John (and Mrs. Hudson), and so he's watching them whenever he can-- after all, the supposedly threw himself off that rooftop to keep John, Lestrade and Mrs. Hudson alive. Or, as Moriarty reminded him, "EVERYone..."

As for a disguise, what kind of disguise would have been possible for John not to have looked over and realized who it was? Just thinking about one of my loved ones-- if I saw them lurking somewhere, I think I'd recognize them just by their height, shoulder width, and the way they stand. When you know someone very well, there's much more to recognition than facial features, hair color, etc.

I don't think he heard John. But he certainly watched him talking, walking up to touch the headstone, and then later wiping at his eyes. Poor John, he made me cry and giggle in turns (love it when he tells Sherlock to "Stop it-- just stop this"-- but doesn't he have the most wonderful actor? Wow.

I think Sherlock was in the cemetery for the TV watchers' benefit, lol. I mean, really-- remember the first time you saw that he was there, didn't you forget to breathe for a minute? I sure did.

 

June 23, 2012 11:53 am  #17


Re: At the cemetery, do you think Sherlock was close enough to hear John?

ancientsgate wrote:

Interesting to think about.


As for a disguise, what kind of disguise would have been possible for John not to have looked over and realized who it was?

I truly hope of all the canon for them to implement or avoid that they do not try to put Sherlock in some sort of cheesy disguise to reintroduce him. As a TS woman, the hideous thought of them putting him in drag makes me want to throw up.


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Disguise is always a self portrait
 

June 23, 2012 12:56 pm  #18


Re: At the cemetery, do you think Sherlock was close enough to hear John?

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5r0ymcY5A1ruhdzlo1_500.png


I see what you mean Sentimental pulse  . It's probably not his best look.


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June 23, 2012 1:15 pm  #19


Re: At the cemetery, do you think Sherlock was close enough to hear John?

JaneCo wrote:

...... It's probably not his best look.

What the HELL is that?  lolololololol  *runs for the brain bleach*

*recovers*  Okay, well, that was a rush....  I'd love to see Ben get invited to Harvard in Boston for their Hasty Pudding award thing they have every year.  I think he'd fit right in.

 

June 23, 2012 1:19 pm  #20


Re: At the cemetery, do you think Sherlock was close enough to hear John?

JaneCo wrote:

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5r0ymcY5A1ruhdzlo1_500.png


I see what you mean Sentimental pulse  . It's probably not his best look.

Oh my God Jane! That is hilarious! Where did you find that? 

Last edited by Sentimental Pulse (June 23, 2012 1:35 pm)


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Disguise is always a self portrait
 

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