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November 4, 2012 1:18 am  #141


Re: Discussions on the John and Sherlock relationship

SusiGo wrote:

Yes, her death is mention merely in passing in "The empty house". ACD treats John's loss quite offhandedly as if he couldn't wait to place him again at 221B. 

Okay, that makes me feel a lot better. 


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This is a cash and carry world. You pay as you go. Sometimes it's a little. Mostly it's a lot. Sometimes it's all you have.
 

November 4, 2012 8:26 am  #142


Re: Discussions on the John and Sherlock relationship

I would suggest reading the Canon to see...
But then Benedict and I have read the same Canon and come to different conclusions(over SCANDAL) so there you go...
But the fact of the matter is that in The Canon, Watson is married, has children and runs a successful medical practice.


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November 4, 2012 3:19 pm  #143


Re: Discussions on the John and Sherlock relationship

Thanks for the info on Watson, I knew he'd gotten married at some point but none of the other stuff. Interesting.
I'm just curious, how do you and Benedict differ over your conclusions of Scandal?


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This is a cash and carry world. You pay as you go. Sometimes it's a little. Mostly it's a lot. Sometimes it's all you have.
 

November 4, 2012 3:23 pm  #144


Re: Discussions on the John and Sherlock relationship

Benedict has stated it is clear to see that Holmes was attracted to Irene. 


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November 4, 2012 8:43 pm  #145


Re: Discussions on the John and Sherlock relationship

Just found this on Twitter:

Leinigen Fitzroy †@leinigen
John Fowles: “...the most effective way for Conan-Doyle to kill off Holmes would have been to kill off Watson instead.† Perceptive chappie.


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

November 4, 2012 8:44 pm  #146


Re: Discussions on the John and Sherlock relationship

Aw.


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November 4, 2012 9:31 pm  #147


Re: Discussions on the John and Sherlock relationship

BIG fan of John Fowles. My goodness the man could write!


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Don't make people into heroes John. Heroes don't exist and if they did I wouldn't be one of them.
 

December 20, 2012 8:14 pm  #148


Re: Discussions on the John and Sherlock relationship

I am new to the forum where and I wanted to share my opinion on their relationship.

Personally, I am a big fan of Johnlock and I love the fanart that is made with it.
It feels even better when you read that the actors are feeling flattered with it as well and that they actually know about the huge fandom that started even before the series did.
I noticed that out there on the internet, there are a lot of people hoping that in this modern version, they might actually come together.
I am conflicted with that.

First, the 'HECK YES' to this question: It is a modern version, a renewed Sherlock, different from the original but still very much based on the books just more 21th century like. In that perspect I would say that making them a canon pairing WOULD technically be possible as not everything has to be the same. I personally am I gay supporter (not gay myself though) and in my opinion, people are not informed enough about how normal it actually is.. how real love like that can be too and I think a popular program like Sherlock would set a great example for general tolerance. Besides that point, it would also make for good television in my opinion. There are always people who will say that if they did that, people would complain and disagree with it, they would lose viewers. Partly they're right, though humans are incredibly predictable. People love to complain about something, it keeps them from getting bored. A gay pairing on the television? Perfect opportunity. They watch it, complain about it.. it becomes a international discussion and it gets more popular with the minute even though you could ask yourself whether that is the kind of attention they'd want, I think it'd be great if they actually did it and it would definately show that they've got some... (don't know if I am allowed to say that word...) b-word.

Then, the 'NO' to the matter: The series is based on Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's books and they were written in the 19th century. In that century, homosexuality was absolutely forbidden by law so (in my point of view at least) obviously he would never have meant for them to be in a relationship (then again it is the 21th century now and the topic has become more and more popular). Since the series are based on the books, I, at the same time, don't think they should make the pairing happen because it would mess with the original storyline.

Ok, so my yes is stronger for me than my no... because in the books.. John gets married and moves out. But seriously, does anyone want to see John move out of 221b??? Wouldn't it be funny if for the sake of a case and an experiment.. he got married to Sherlock instead and they have covered that part as well? They don't even have to be gay, as I said... for the sake of the case.

Well that's my opinion. Right now I really don't care what will happen because I just enjoy watching those hilarious moments between them and I hope they won't take that away!


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You and I go hard at each other like we’re going to war
You and I go rough, we keep throwing things and slamming the door
You and I get so damn dysfunctional

 

December 20, 2012 8:20 pm  #149


Re: Discussions on the John and Sherlock relationship

1, Whether we want Johnlock or not, it isn't going to happen.
Bromance yes, romantic love- no.
2.  Whether or not we want John to marry and leave Baker St, it will happen.

The Canon informs.


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December 20, 2012 8:28 pm  #150


Re: Discussions on the John and Sherlock relationship

"The Canon informs."

Like "Roma locuta"?   

Last edited by Harriet (December 20, 2012 8:29 pm)


Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.   Independent OSAJ Affiliate

... but there may be some new players now. It’s okay. The East Wind takes us all in the end.
 

December 20, 2012 8:47 pm  #151


Re: Discussions on the John and Sherlock relationship

Harriet wrote:

"The Canon informs."
Like "Roma locuta"?   

I dunno. ACD's "Roma" did not "locuta" about cell phones, gas-powered vehicles, computers, televisions, Sig Sauers and Glocks, so....  in this BBC production, things have definitely been allowed to be added and taken away from his original ideas. And IMO that applies to personal relationships as well, not just to the physical props. As long as Sherlock remains a consulting detective, and John remains a physician, wounded vet, and Sherlock's right hand man, then... everything else is gravy, and as far as I'm concerned, the writers can feel free to take both of them wherever they think fit. I am simply along for the ride, which so far has been nothing but fun.

 

December 20, 2012 9:47 pm  #152


Re: Discussions on the John and Sherlock relationship

The teasy bromance angle is one of the reasons this show is so much fun.  Those writers and directors know exactly what they're doing and put in just enough subtle homoeroticsm to make our hearts beat a tiny bit faster.  On the other hand, it's quite subtle, so those who aren't in tune don't have to see it - they can just see friendship. However, I do think they really pushed the evelope in Series 2.  Examples we're all familiar with: the scene with Janette breaking up with John over his devotion to Sherlock, the scene with John and Irene in the power plant where she says, "Look at us both" (and Irene always knows what people want), John's jealousy of Irene quite apparent in the coffee mug scene.  Sherlock confessing that John's his only friend in 'Hounds' (some see this as insincere manipulation; I personally don't).  TRF was amost a game changer with the "You look sad" scene, John's near emotional and physical collapse on the sidewalk after Sherlock fell (possibly because he'd just been whacked by the bicycle; again, I personally don't see it that way) and of course the heartwrenching grave scene. Any one of these moments can be taken as deep friendship - but they also can be more if you want them to be. This whole bromance thing has taken on a huge life of it's own - as all involved in the show are well aware.  (It can either be seen as having a tiger by the tail or as sitting on gold mine). The Moftiss will have to keep the show mainstream, so no openly gay confessions or activity will take place between the boys (modern 'Sherlock' or not, they will stay firmly rooted in canon); but I'm almost sure they will take great delight in continuing to torment us with little hints and innuendos to keep us on the edge of our seats.  That's okay.  All we need are the hints and innuendos and our non-mainstream fannish imaginations will do the rest.


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And I said "dangerous" and here you are.

You. It's always you. John Watson, you keep me right.

     Thread Starter
 

December 20, 2012 9:51 pm  #153


Re: Discussions on the John and Sherlock relationship

But it's not hints or innuendos.
They are not in a relationship nor ever will be.
It's just still the fun thing of other people thinking they are gay.
I will be surprised if we do  not see John married.


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December 20, 2012 9:53 pm  #154


Re: Discussions on the John and Sherlock relationship

I love the way you know how to predict the future, besleybean 


Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.   Independent OSAJ Affiliate

... but there may be some new players now. It’s okay. The East Wind takes us all in the end.
 

December 20, 2012 9:56 pm  #155


Re: Discussions on the John and Sherlock relationship

I just listen to what the writers say.


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December 20, 2012 10:02 pm  #156


Re: Discussions on the John and Sherlock relationship

Well said, KP. And isn't it also the genius of Moftiss to make so many people happy by leaving things open to the imagination and offering a variety of interpretations?


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

December 20, 2012 10:04 pm  #157


Re: Discussions on the John and Sherlock relationship

besleybean wrote:

I just listen to what the writers say.

Just saying 

Last edited by Harriet (December 20, 2012 10:06 pm)


Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.   Independent OSAJ Affiliate

... but there may be some new players now. It’s okay. The East Wind takes us all in the end.
 

December 20, 2012 11:05 pm  #158


Re: Discussions on the John and Sherlock relationship

According to the information I have gathered from both interviews I have heard myself, and things I have heard from other fans.. it is not certain yet what will happen.
1. The writers clearly said that they had the OPTION to have John get married to the women from the books but they said they didn't have to and they had not decided yet.
2. I also heard from someone, though this may or may not be true because I don't know their source, that the writers stated they could go for Johnlock if they wanted to and that they may or may not do so.
Nothing is certain yet. At least I know that 1 is certaintly true.


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You and I go hard at each other like we’re going to war
You and I go rough, we keep throwing things and slamming the door
You and I get so damn dysfunctional

 

December 21, 2012 12:34 am  #159


Re: Discussions on the John and Sherlock relationship

KeepersPrice wrote:

The teasy bromance angle is one of the reasons this show is so much fun.  Those writers and directors know exactly what they're doing and put in just enough subtle homoeroticsm to make our hearts beat a tiny bit faster.  On the other hand, it's quite subtle, so those who aren't in tune don't have to see it - they can just see friendship. ... All we need are the hints and innuendos and our non-mainstream fannish imaginations will do the rest.

Well said, KP. You and I are sisters from different mothers, definitely of one mind about this.

 

December 21, 2012 6:58 am  #160


Re: Discussions on the John and Sherlock relationship

Well I don't really do Christmas, but this still makes me a bit of a grumpy old woman!
Having said that, can we all just clarify exactly what we are talking about here?
So some of you seriously think we are going to see Sherlock and John in  a sexual relationship?  Cos that's what Johnlock means to me and I stand by my previous comments. Ain't gonna happen,
But theirs  is a close, loving friendship, which will grow over time.
This is bromance and is most deifinitely the story of Sherlock Holmes and John  Watson and mainly what I watch anything Sherlock for.
The rest is transport.


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