BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Discussions on the John and Sherlock relationship

Ormond Sacker · January 16, 2014 9:02 pm

besleybean wrote:
Didn't John and Mary have children in The Canon?

No. She may have got pregnant at some point, but then we never really hear much about Watson's home life, but there is not a single indication that they ever had children.

Ormond Sacker · January 16, 2014 9:03 pm

QuiteExtraordinary wrote:
If they want to stick to canon they'll have to keep up the ambiguity. Because the canon can be interpreted in different ways, too. And that's exactly what they've done so far.

My point was that they only stick to the canon when they fell like it.

mrshouse · January 17, 2014 9:36 am

lil wrote:
besleybean wrote:
I agree.
These boys love each other, no doubt.
But even up to The Sign of Three: John has married a woman and Sherlock cringes twice at the mention of sex.
John is straight.
God knows about Sherlock, but there has never been anything to suggest he's gay.

Sherlock thought John was hitting on him first episode, was Sherlock wrong?

Moriarty deduced they loved each other...and he even played gay to get Sherlock attention. Why gay?

So did Irene , she thought it was sexual even tho she was gay and John was..mostly straight.

Even Mycroft insinuates it..several times.
Is everyone wrong...or is Sherlock Johns exception, just as John is his?
This thing is growing...ooops pun....but not yet complete.

When the most observing person in the world thinks you're flirting him.....You probably are!
Have a feeling mabybe the writers dont know themselves where they are heading with this. I agree they might keep all options.

Marva · January 17, 2014 9:45 am

mrshouse wrote:
lil wrote:
besleybean wrote:
I agree.
These boys love each other, no doubt.
But even up to The Sign of Three: John has married a woman and Sherlock cringes twice at the mention of sex.
John is straight.
God knows about Sherlock, but there has never been anything to suggest he's gay.

Sherlock thought John was hitting on him first episode, was Sherlock wrong?

Moriarty deduced they loved each other...and he even played gay to get Sherlock attention. Why gay?

So did Irene , she thought it was sexual even tho she was gay and John was..mostly straight.

Even Mycroft insinuates it..several times.
Is everyone wrong...or is Sherlock Johns exception, just as John is his?
This thing is growing...ooops pun....but not yet complete.
When the most observing person in the world thinks you're flirting him.....You probably are!
Have a feeling mabybe the writers dont know themselves where they are heading with this. I agree they might keep all options.

Yep, exactly.

We know that Sherlock's abilities to read emotions/to deduce properly decrease when he is involved emotionally. When he deduced in ASiP that John was hitting on him he was barely "involved" at all as he almost didn't know John at that time. Which makes it more likely that the deduction was correct.

Just sayin'.

mrshouse · January 17, 2014 9:50 am

Just thinking:
when CAM is scanning both John and sherlock there is this section called "porn preference"
It spells out "normal" for both of them. This might imply being heterosexual on the surface, but regarding MG and maybe also AS...
Was this ever discussed somewhere here? Just found comments on the pressure points.

Schmiezi · January 17, 2014 9:52 am

Please tell me I'm misunderstanding you, mrsmouse. You are not implying that preferring gay porn is not normal, are you?

Marva · January 17, 2014 9:54 am

what do you mean by "MG" and "AS"?

I think there are two things to consider:

1. this information could not be true. Maybe CAM just didn't have any specific information on that, so he opts for "normal", meaning nothing that can be used for blackmailing

2. But if there is indeed any relevance to that information we can deduce that Sherlock is not asexual. I don't think we can say if he is hetero-, bi-, or homosexual (based on that), because I would regard each preference as quite normal. And even if a certain portion of society wouldn't agree to that - being gay (for example) is hardly something you can use for blackmail nowadays.

mrshouse · January 17, 2014 9:58 am

Schmiezi wrote:
Please tell me I'm misunderstanding you, mrsmouse. You are not implying that preferring gay porn is not normal, are you?

Quite the contrary!!!
Ment to say that for Moftiss every way of lifestyle is to be regarded as normal! And pointing out again they might not know themselves where they are heading!
MG is Mark Gatiss
AS is Andrew Scott
Two lovely men openly gay
Love them

Schmiezi · January 17, 2014 10:13 am

Thanks for the explanation, Mrsmouse!

Ormond Sacker · January 17, 2014 10:42 am

Just a guess but I think anything that wouldn't cause a public outcry such as snuff porn, child porn and the like would be logged by Magnussen as normal. After all I don't think watching gay porn could be used as a preassure point, not in the UK at least. Had it been say Russia such might have been logged differently.

Marva · January 17, 2014 10:47 am

Ormond Sacker wrote:
Just a guess but I think anything that wouldn't cause a public outcry such as snuff porn, child porn and the like would be logged by Magnussen as normal. After all I don't think watching gay porn could be used as a preassure point, not in the UK at least. Had it been say Russia such might have been logged differently.

that's exactly what I was suggesting with my post:

Sherlock having a "normal" porn preference can mean anything which is legal and broadly accepted.

besleybean · January 17, 2014 4:54 pm

I strongly believe he will have no interest in any porn whatsoever.
Why would he?

Zatoichi · January 31, 2014 10:05 am

@besleybean: Why do I think of Sheldon Cooper now, going all excited over a flipchart with formulas on it ? 'It´s like seeing the universe naked.. *shudders*'

Brain porn.. *snickers*

Last edited by Zatoichi (January 31, 2014 12:14 pm)

Ormond Sacker · February 2, 2014 2:06 pm

besleybean wrote:
I strongly believe he will have no interest in any porn whatsoever.
Why would he?

But according to CAM's "file" on him he has because he has a rating of normal while Lady Smallwood has a rating of none so CAM makes the difference. If Sherlock had no interest in/never watched porn I can only assume that he would have had a none rating too.

besleybean · February 2, 2014 2:15 pm

Yes, that was what I was wondering about...
I'm a tad disappointed to think of Sherlock using porn...
Maybe it is for research!
It does make you wonder what CAM's definition of 'normal' is.
I mean I presume it means not bestiality/paedophilia etc...
I suppose maybe Sherlock has to use porn if he doesn't actually want to interact with another human being.
But really, has he no imagination?!

Ormond Sacker · February 2, 2014 2:29 pm

As for what CAM considers "normal" in porn I'll refer to my answer above, any kind that wouldn't create a public outcry.
Watching gay porn wouldn't necessarily create an outcry in the UK and is thus labled "normal". In Russia things would stand differently. So I think that the "normal" lable is contextual.

besleybean · February 2, 2014 2:36 pm

At one time you weren't supposed to be gay in the secret service...not sure if that still applies and was always silly anyway, as most blackkmail has been via straight relationships.
Pleased to hear that gay would be considered normal.
Tho I don't really think of Sherlock as gay.
I've just read an interesting article where somebody thinks he is...

Ormond Sacker · February 2, 2014 6:35 pm

Gay was an example in this case, not a comment about Sherlock's sexual preferences. As to how things are in the Army I have absolutely no idea. As for the gay porn thing, it might be a pressure point if the one watching was a Conservative politician who had toted family values and spoken out against "the sin" of being gay, but I think that in most cases it wouldn't be.

dartmoordoggers · February 2, 2014 7:26 pm

Ormond Sacker wrote:
besleybean wrote:
I strongly believe he will have no interest in any porn whatsoever.
Why would he?

But according to CAM's "file" on him he has because he has a rating of normal while Lady Smallwood has a rating of none so CAM makes the difference. If Sherlock had no interest in/never watched porn I can only assume that he would have had a none rating too.

Wasn't that alluded to in ASiB. 'If I wanted to look at naked women I'd borrow John's laptop.' 'You do borrow my laptop.'

Ormond Sacker · February 2, 2014 7:57 pm

dartmoordoggers wrote:
Ormond Sacker wrote:
besleybean wrote:
I strongly believe he will have no interest in any porn whatsoever.
Why would he?

But according to CAM's "file" on him he has because he has a rating of normal while Lady Smallwood has a rating of none so CAM makes the difference. If Sherlock had no interest in/never watched porn I can only assume that he would have had a none rating too.
Wasn't that alluded to in ASiB. 'If I wanted to look at naked women I'd borrow John's laptop.' 'You do borrow my laptop.'

To which Sherlock answered: "I confiscate it.", which was ambiguous, deliberately so I think. Of course, now that Sherlock doesn't have the use of John's laptop anymore does that mean he isn't wathicng porn anymore? .