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July 18, 2012 10:38 pm  #61


Re: Christmas is cancelled at 221 B Baker

I might be remembering this wrongly (and I fully intend to do more 'research' in the next couple of days) but wasn't John going to stay with his sister rather than his girlfriend?

With regard to Sarah, I  have been hoping her second name is Mary. 


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July 18, 2012 10:53 pm  #62


Re: Christmas is cancelled at 221 B Baker

Davina wrote:

John forgetting that the GF did not have a dog is an insult and is just the final straw. She says about her friends saying what a great boyfriend he is, perhaps they have been praising him to her or maybe they have been criticising him and his relationship with Sherlock. He was prepared to go away and spend Christmas with her though wasn't he.

Actually, he was going to Harry's the next day. I didn't notice any reference to "Nobody" going with him.

Davina wrote:

Personally I think that Sherlock knows exactly who she is but by going through the list of John's 'conquests' and then adding the 'boring teacher' as the icing on the cake he must be hoping that this will cause trouble between her and John. It certainly makes John seem like a right womaniser. We know Sherlock is manipulative when he wants to get something. He doesn't want John to go away at Christmas and he is deliberately trying to make life difficult for him. Note he hasn't been moaning at John about his plans to go away but he has been moaning about it to Molly.

I don't know about looking like a womanizer-- I don't think men are considered that unless they're sleeping with more than one person at a time. I got the feeling that he's a serial dater, however. How else is a guy going to find someone decent? I feel bad for John, though--  sorry, but he's just too damn old to be so unsettled in his private life. I know it's "hard to find a good (woman) these days", but still and all, that's tough, to be alone and wanting more and not connecting with anyone. ('Course, I think he HAS connected with someone, if he would just open his eyes and find some bravery somewhere--  hooking up with Sherlock would be like riding an untamed bronco, but I think it could be done, if the bronc were given freedom to run in between rides, as it were, lolololololol..... ahem.)

Yes, Sherlock is the King of Manipulators. He thinks he's 100% justified, of course.

I wonder why he would admit to himself that he didn't want John to go away for Christmas-- he HAD admitted it, else he never would have said anything to anyone. Why was it important for him to shove that thing about Harry still drinking in John's face (what a pissy thing to do). And why, by all things holy, would he have been complaining about John going away to Molly? Or really,to anyone? Good grief.

That evening was the Evening From Hell, in major ways. Whew. It's as if the writers took every horror story from every holiday they ever had and wrote it into one scene. It was unrelenting.

 

July 19, 2012 2:49 am  #63


Re: Christmas is cancelled at 221 B Baker

Yeah, if this little Christmas scene was bad - just imagine those Christmas dinners with mummy and the family Mycroft hinted at.  A complete bloodbath! 


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July 21, 2012 8:21 pm  #64


Re: Christmas is cancelled at 221 B Baker

Oh God, Christmas with Sherlock is always gonna be bad! I can imagine Sherlock and John might have an OK Christmas if they just spent it together though - John flicking through the Christmas telly with his feet up, Sherlock doing some experiment on the turkey....oh, and maybe finding a blue carbuncle, that might go down well....


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July 21, 2012 9:20 pm  #65


Re: Christmas is cancelled at 221 B Baker

Sherlock Holmes wrote:

Oh God, Christmas with Sherlock is always gonna be bad! I can imagine Sherlock and John might have an OK Christmas if they just spent it together though - John flicking through the Christmas telly with his feet up, Sherlock doing some experiment on the turkey....oh, and maybe finding a blue carbuncle, that might go down well....

What's a blue carbuncle?  I mean, I know what a carbuncle is (ewwww) but a blue one?  *scratches head*

I'm a S/J shipper/slasher, so I think Christmas together on a quiet day would be quite... interesting. Not sure about Sherlock dissecting a turkey, but if anyone gets hungry, the Chinese take-away down the street would undoubtedly be open.  *g*

 

July 21, 2012 9:32 pm  #66


Re: Christmas is cancelled at 221 B Baker

A carbuncle can also be a gemstone. I guess that's what's meant here  . There's a ACD story about it, "The blue carbuncle" if I remember correctly.


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July 21, 2012 9:36 pm  #67


Re: Christmas is cancelled at 221 B Baker

Yes. Read the story The Blue Carbuncle and all will become clear. It's a good one actually. It would make a good Christmas Special!


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July 21, 2012 9:39 pm  #68


Re: Christmas is cancelled at 221 B Baker

Davina wrote:

Yes. Read the story The Blue Carbuncle and all will become clear. It's a good one actually. It would make a good Christmas Special!   

An ACD Sherlock story, I presume.

 

July 22, 2012 7:25 am  #69


Re: Christmas is cancelled at 221 B Baker

Yes it is in the original stories.


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August 12, 2012 11:03 pm  #70


Re: Christmas is cancelled at 221 B Baker

Okay everyone, I started this thread a while back so now I'm going to dig down for the one last bit of subtext I could possibly mine out of this scene before I put it to rest. It's buried so deep that it will most likely seem absurd; but it's been on my mind so I'm going to spit it out at last.  My excuse is that I was an English major and that's what English majors DO  Also, I'm going on the premise that no line in this show is wasted and they're all there for a reason.

My interpretation has always been that the theme of jealousy is a constant throughout this entire scene - blatant and out there. It may not necessarily be a romantic or sexual jealousy but it certainly has to do with possessiveness, i.e. Sherlock attempting to imploding everyone's relationships - especially John's, John counting the number of texts from Irene, Sherlock cutting Molly down because she inadvertently reveals his personal thoughts concerning John going away for Christmas, etc. See previous posts for all detailed discussions....

What caught my attention (after about 20 viewings) was Mrs. Hudson's line, after Sherlock plays his Christmas carol, about how she wished "he could have worn the antlers".  He says, "Somethings are best left to the imagination, Mrs. Hudson."  He then turns around and runs smack into John's girlfriend, Jeanette (Ms.Nobody).  Hmmm, for us English majors, antlers have a certain symbolism associated to them.  Here's a quote I found on line that explains it:

In Shakespeare's day, horns and antlers were a common symbol of a "cuckolded" husband, a.k.a. a man whose wife has cheated on him. So, whenever horns come up in a play, we know there's a 99% chance that someone is worried about starring in an upcoming episode of the reality show Cheaters.

So, Mrs. Hudson's antler line - just for amusement?  Or is there symbolism buried there? Far-fetched maybe - but don't blame me for these kinds of thoughts and interpretations - blame my college professors.  .  I just had to get this out there .


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And I said "dangerous" and here you are.

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August 12, 2012 11:53 pm  #71


Re: Christmas is cancelled at 221 B Baker

KeepersPrice wrote:

What caught my attention (after about 20 viewings) was Mrs. Hudson's line, after Sherlock plays his Christmas carol, about how she wished "he could have worn the antlers".  He says, "Somethings are best left to the imagination, Mrs. Hudson."  He then turns around and runs smack into John's girlfriend, Jeanette (Ms.Nobody).  Hmmm, for us English majors, antlers have a certain symbolism associated to them.  Here's a quote I found on line that explains it: In Shakespeare's day, horns and antlers were a common symbol of a "cuckolded" husband, a.k.a. a man whose wife has cheated on him. So, whenever horns come up in a play, we know there's a 99% chance that someone is worried about starring in an upcoming episode of the reality show Cheaters.

bwahahahahahaha! A cuckolded husband?  OMG bwahahahahaha *rolls on floor laughing*  I love it. God bless the English majors....

 

August 13, 2012 12:09 am  #72


Re: Christmas is cancelled at 221 B Baker

ancientsgate wrote:

bwahahahahahaha! A cuckolded husband?  OMG bwahahahahaha *rolls on floor laughing*  I love it. God bless the English majors....


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And I said "dangerous" and here you are.

You. It's always you. John Watson, you keep me right.

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August 13, 2012 12:49 am  #73


Re: Christmas is cancelled at 221 B Baker

*had to second that, well.. third..*

 

May 14, 2015 9:27 pm  #74


Re: Christmas is cancelled at 221 B Baker

I think it's clear as well that he was uncomfortable from the start with the whole gathering thing. Slightly strange, seeing as it's only his closest friends with whom he's all comfortable with (well, except perhaps Molly).

I always figured that when he started going off towards Molly it was meant to be friendly teasing. What made it so horrible was that he was the receiver of the gift, something he didn't know. (So perhaps evidence that he didn't know about her crush towards him?).

However, towards the end I feel even Sherlock becomes quite out of character. Yes, he can be rude and arrogant, but he is never purpously mean and cruel. And just about everything he says is done jokingly and is in itself logical and reasonable. And then comes the last line:

"... obviously to compensate for the size of her mouth and breasts". 

That is incredibly cruel, sadistically vile. And that is incredibly out of character as I see it. Where on earth did that last line come from?!

(On a different note, I have also always been confused by Mrs Hudson saying "It's the one time of year the boys have to be nice to me". John is always nice to Mrs. Hudson, I felt that remark was a bit unfair towards him).


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May 14, 2015 10:39 pm  #75


Re: Christmas is cancelled at 221 B Baker

Well, I remember a comment  from A Study in Pink where Sherlock says to Molly after she takes off her lipstick that her mouth is "too small now." So the comment in Scandal is kind of a reptition of that.  Also, even though we know that Sherlock's teasing isn't meant to be really hurtful on purpose, but we also know he never really had good friends.  So, he went too far without meaning to be as hurtful as he ended up being.  He realizes how hurtful he is afterwards, seeing Molly's reaction and also realizing how he shouldn't have teased her because the gift was for him, and kisses her on the cheek as part of his apology to her.


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May 14, 2015 11:50 pm  #76


Re: Christmas is cancelled at 221 B Baker

Oh wow, I'm so glad this thread got bumped, that info about antlers is priceless!

Not sure what Sherlock is thinking when Molly arrives ("Oh dear lord"). He doesn't like the way everyone is being so cheerful and friendly ("Everybody saying hello to each other, how wonderful!"). He obviously doesn't think much of "Christmas drinkies". His bad mood is definitely the reason he is so cruel to Molly, so is it to do with not liking Christmas, or because Jeanette is there, or because John is planning on going away and leaving Sherlock alone? Hmmm...


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May 15, 2015 1:07 am  #77


Re: Christmas is cancelled at 221 B Baker

I think he just doesn't like Christmas festivities and the conventions that go with holiday get-togethers.  He probably finds them superficial and tedious.

Last edited by Yitzock (May 15, 2015 1:07 am)


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May 15, 2015 1:23 am  #78


Re: Christmas is cancelled at 221 B Baker

I think it's all of the above.


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And I said "dangerous" and here you are.

You. It's always you. John Watson, you keep me right.

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May 15, 2015 8:10 am  #79


Re: Christmas is cancelled at 221 B Baker

I agree with all of you. To me, the deduction was meant to be teasing, not cruel. What made it cruel, was that the gift was for him. And that is why that last line stands out to me. That is not friendly teasing, that is just horrible. And it feels a bit OOC for Sherlock, because I've never seen him be hurtful and cruel on purpose. 

A completely different thing that stands out to me is John  having counted all of Irene's 57 texts. I wouldn't even call that romantic jealousy, that's bordering on being obsessed with it. If my boyfriend (or my regular friend, for that matter) had been concerned or jealous because I got a bunch of texts from another man, that would've been very understandable. If my boyfriend had counted them, I would've been very, very worried.

Last edited by Vhanja (May 15, 2015 8:13 am)


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May 15, 2015 8:40 am  #80


Re: Christmas is cancelled at 221 B Baker

I agree Vhanja, I watched it again, and Sherlock is jokey and smiling every time he deduces something about someone at the party. I'm not sure why he turns so nasty on Molly, but it probably has to do with her previous comment about John.

It is a bit strange that John was counting how many texts Sherlock received. But he knew they were from Irene, and the alert sound was very noticeable. Sherlock avoided his questions about Irene, John was very curious about it. He seems to really want to know how Sherlock feels about Irene or women in general...


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