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His Last Vow » Sherlock's love for John » January 24, 2014 8:40 am |
gently69 wrote:
I never doubted Martin's acting skills in tthis scene. IMO he did it perfect. Benedict and Martin are totally different in their expressions and that's fantastic. It would be boring for me if they both act in the same way. I loved both performances which showed me their harm in different versions. Both fit to the characters.
I know you didn't I was referring to earlier posts who had started to doubt some of the acting choices of MF. You just kindly helped to "prove" my point I agree that Ben's and Martin's acting styles are very different but both fantastic in their own way. They complement each other perfectly.
gently69 wrote:
And my explanation for "near to tears"... I see that if the eyes starting to get wet... didn't see that at the end of TRF... compared to several scenes in S3. His whole face changes then. Benedict can control that perfectly.
I don't see any tears at the end of TRF either. I would say the the expression is serious and probably like he's trying to distant himself from what he has just seen, but I don't really see "sad" and definitly no tears. But again, it's an expression that can be read differently by different people and that's what makes it feel much more real than an obvious, one dimentional expression. And I think the same can be said about that airport scene - which I love and wouldn't want it to be any different.
His Last Vow » Sherlock's love for John » January 23, 2014 11:32 pm |
silverblaze wrote:
Ben looked really close to tears there. Very realistic acting IMHO.
gently69 wrote:
He looked very serious. No sign of tears. (We talking about the end of TRF?) Near to tears he showed convincing in HLV.
mrshouse wrote:
I thought he looked really sad at the graveyard, not close to tears though
Thank you, you just proved the point I was trying to make: Some people think Sherlock looked close to tears there, some think he looked really sad but definitly not close to tears, some think he looked serious and some think he looked cold (I don't, I was just kind of playing devil's advocate there for a bit) or at least not moved enough after seeing John's grief. His expression can be interpreted differently, but no one ever thought of questioning BC's acting there (and to say it again, neither do I).
So John's expressions and behaviour at the airport in HLV can be interpreted defferently by people as well, but why do they start to question MF's acting there? There's absolutely no reason to belive that he didn't perfectly deliver what the writers wanted in that scene, and I think the people who think that John acted coldly base this at least as much on his refusal to call his daughter "Sherlock" (something MF can definitly not be blamed for) as on anything else in that scene.
His Last Vow » Sherlock's love for John » January 23, 2014 4:00 pm |
miriel68 wrote:
I am wondering whether some - no, not doubts, this is too strong a word - but hesitations about John's reactions and feelings in s3, especially HLV stem from the script or from MF perfomance. Evidentely there must be something slightly disturbing and I wouldn't put it on simple not being able to observe and understand a subtle performance: not on this board, at least, where the people are not casual viewers and tend to watch and re-watch episodes, analysing them in depth. One thing I noticed, for example, in the scene at the beginning of the episode, when they are leaving drug den and Sherlock is shouting, is that MF is actually smiling! (Well, it is true that Benedict is hilarious as an enraged junkie!). This is the first time in the whole series I noticed MF acting out of character.
Taking into consideration that they usually film several takes of every scene and MF never plays his part exactly the same in each take (because that would be too boring), I'm rather confident that what we see from John in this last scene at the airport is what the writers wanted him to be like. By the way, Sherlock seemed rather cold in that graveyard at the end of TRF, after seeing a broken John at his grave. Did anyone question Ben's acting there? I don't think so . . .
His Last Vow » Sherlock's love for John » January 23, 2014 7:40 am |
SolarSystem wrote:
I'd like to come back to that last scene at the airport, because I have to agree with several others here: I never thought that John was being cold towards Sherlock. To me his reaction made total sense, especially when I think back to the train scene in TEH in which John clearly states that he's not good at this kind of stuff - meaning, he's not good at talking about emotions.
Of course there is always something between 'talking too much' and 'saying nothing at all', and I feel that what they gave us with this scene is something that fits right into the middle of those two. You can talk emotions to death, and far too many tv shows do exactly that on a regular basis. So I was hugely relieved that they didn't got for that here. Small gestures, eye contact or the avoidance thereof and not too much talking... perfect. Sherlock and John are standing there together, but I can already feel the loneliness that both of them are bound to feel because of this goodbye.
You perfectly summed up my exact thoughts here!
His Last Vow » Sherlock's love for John » January 23, 2014 7:38 am |
mrshouse wrote:
Quiet so, and that is what i love martin's acting for!
Couldn't agree more! His ability to subtly yet still palpably convey every single emotion is something very rare!
The Empty Hearse » The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer?? » January 23, 2014 7:19 am |
Merry wrote:
Would it be out of line to ask for a Spoiler warning? I know there's a huge sign on the forum that basically says there's going to be spoilers everywhere, but this is the Empty Hearse area and I've seen that ep but not the others since they havent aired in the US.
I'd like to be able to talk about the ep with everyone while it's still new (to me, and other US folks) and not have to wait till all three have aired to come into the forum at all. Truly asking if that's out of line or not.
So sorry! I added a spoiler warning to my post. I just tried to answer the quoted question without realizing that it concerned a later episode.
The Empty Hearse » The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer?? » January 22, 2014 7:41 am |
SPOILER WARNING This answer refers to a question concerning episode 3.03. If you haven't seen it yet, don't read it.
lisa wrote:
Can we address the change in Sherlock? He seems friendlier more humble, which is all explainable, he had so many of his friends come through and help him. I really had to get used to that though, but what is with the ladies man routine. He is having sex now? He was "the virgin" just a few episodes ago. Now don't get me wrong, I loved it, but I didn't expect it. My secret fantasy always was that after he saved Irene Adler they went off to some exoctic hotel and she "Thanked" him. So now I see that she probably did and taught him a few things. RoWWWWWW! Wish they made that into an episode! LOL!
I don't think he was having sex with Janine. In the hospital, she answered his "I exploited the fact of our connection" remark with: "Just once would have been nice" to which Sherlock responds "I was waiting until we got married". As far as I understand this, Janine was complaining that they never had sex. What else could the "waiting until they got married" remark have referred to?
The Empty Hearse » The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer?? » January 22, 2014 7:22 am |
SherlocklivesinOH wrote:
Traditionally (in every adaptation but this one), Watson was always kind of in awe of Holmes. He is usually played as viewing Holmes coming back as being a miracle and he's focused on being glad he's back.
I don't think John's "I don't care how you faked it," line was just something said in the heat of anger and not meant...I think he genuinely doesn't care. And consider if that Sherlock's not being dead (dare we say, rising from the dead?) was a miracle, it was less about lying and scheming on Sherlock's part. John can think of it as "miraculously not dead," instead of "pretending to be dead and lying to me." Does that make sense?
To me, this makes perfect sense. I think by stating that he wanted to consider Sherlock's return as a miracle, John expressed that he had truely forgiven Sherlock. Because there's nothing to be angry about when someone has just "given" you a miracle, is there?
SherlocklivesinOH wrote:
And remember: even if the solution we see him tell Anderson was the true one, that does not require that the conversation with Anderson really happened. That could be the true solution and Sherlock could have just imagined himself telling Anderson.
I haven't thought about that possibilty, but it could indeed have been like that. Although it still doesn't make sense that Sherlock would use Anderson't first name when he can't be bothered to ever remember Greg's first name.
I love that we're left in the open and that it's up to each viewer to decide if he/she wants to believe that this how it happened.
His Last Vow » Favorite Quotes from His Last Vow » January 22, 2014 12:19 am |
"But she wasn't supposed to be like that!" Always manages to break my heart.
Series Three Reviews » Your Top Three Moments of Series Three » January 21, 2014 11:21 pm |
Ok, I'm going to try, but my choice might change on a daily basis (not No. 1 though, but the others).
1. The whole "but she wasn't supposed to be like that" scene in HLV. Left my heart shattered in millions of pieces.
2. The whole reunion of John and Sherlock in TEH. How can something be so heartbreaking and so funny at the same time?
3. John asking Sherlock to be his best man in TSoT. How Sherlock told it and how it actually happened. Again, funny and touching at the same time.
Were this already three? Not enough!
His Last Vow » What Sherlock did... » January 21, 2014 11:06 pm |
Willow wrote:
Don't get me started on the jumpers! I mean, it was a blindingly obvious symbolic lead in to what was going to happen in TRF and not one of the critics noticed!
This just made me laugh out loud in the middle of the night. I hope that my neighbours will be forgiving! But how blind have we been, indeed!
His Last Vow » Sherlock's love for John » January 21, 2014 11:01 pm |
lil wrote:
Well..little off current topic...but was just reading johnwatsons blog..and Sherlocks fake entry for John..kinda lol the blog..anyway I noticed in the comments there Sherlock deduces. " ..using the word mate is a sign that your overcompensating for your middle class middle aged life..and want the world to see you as young and cool."
Ahem..so who remembers the odd look on Johns face when he called Sherlock "mate"
Heh poor John...trying to look young@cool for Sherlock?
And overcompensating....
Haha, that's so funny, and yes, I remember John's face when he called Sherlock "mate". Hilarious!
His Last Vow » Sherlock's love for John » January 21, 2014 10:58 pm |
Willow wrote:
LightPurple wrote:
Yes, he said to Whitney that he hand't seen Sherlock "for ages", which Mary corrected into "one month!" Taking into consideration how VERY keen John was on getting out of the house to do his own little inverstigation in the drug den, and just how generally frustrated he seemed in that scene, I don't doubt that he had started to sorely miss his life with Sherlock, and not having been out on a case with Sherlock for a whole month had, indeed, felt like ages to him.
Is this intended to fit with the stuff on John's blog, where we have Mary telling John that he's not supposed to be reading his blog when he's on his Sex Holiday?
I do think that Sherlock's analysis of why John was attracted to Mary is too glib; John believes that he deliberately chose someone who would not endanger herself, because losing someone you love hurts and he doesn't want to do that again.
I haven't read John's blog for quite a while, but will do so after writing this.
A think you are spot on with this thought. It would make perfect sense for John to consciously look for someone save, someone "normal", because he wouldn't want to go through such an intense experience of loss again. His heartbreaking "but she wasn't supposed to be like that!" in HLV supports this thought. On the other hand, we don't consiously choose who we love and get along with, and I think John's character just seems to be a perfect match for people who don't actually fit into that box of "normalcy", even if they seem to do so at first sight.
General Sherlock Discussion » Rank your favourite Sherlock episodes » January 21, 2014 10:01 pm |
Ooooo, why am I doing this to myself? It's such a hard choice and it really depends on my mood which episode is my favourite. But I'm trying to give it a go:
1. The Reichenbach Fall
2. His Last Vow
3. A Scandal in Belgravia
4. The Sign of Three
5. A Study in Pink
6. The Empty Hearse
7. The Great Game
8. The Hounds of Baskerville (I truely love this episode, too, and I'm really sad that I have to put it so far near the end of my list )
9. The Blind Banker (sorry, this has some great scenes, but to me it's by far the "worst" of the 9 episodes, without the slightest hesitation. It's the only one I don't feel like watching over and over again).
The Empty Hearse » The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer?? » January 21, 2014 9:32 pm |
SherlocklivesinOH wrote:
Sherlock Holmes wrote:
I just always imagined that the true reveal would come from Sherlock telling John how he did it. And there was that moment, when John asked him as they were about to go out and face the press. There was like...five minutes left to spare, and I honestly thought Sherlock was about to tell him then.
You honed in here on the piece that bothered me: I assumed at the time this was the true explanation because 1) it was almost the end of the episode, and 2) I thought he was talking to John. And I assumed he would tell John the truth. (Silly me!)
And then at the end, didn't John ask Sherlock again how he did it?
I do see the point behind the "he wouldn't tell Anderson the truth," comment. I have said many times that he could get back at those who hated him in-universe by keeping them in the dark....thinking about supernatural possibilties...and maybe making them wonder a little if it was anything like History's Greatest Rise From the Dead...and John HAS to be wondering that on some level, too.
I have thought about that conversation between John and Sherlock at thte end of TEH a lot, because it didn't really make much sense to me at first. Sherlock wanted to tell John how he did it very early on in the episode, but was interrupted by John not wanting to know. So why wouldn't he tell him later, once John had calmed down? Now I've come to think that in this last scene at Baker Street, John didn't actually ask Sherlock to tell him how he did it. He doesn't really put a question mark at the end of his sentence, but just quietly states "you're not going to tell me how youd did it". I now have come to the conclusion that this is actually John telling Sherlock NOT to tell him how he actually did it, so they could just pretend it was a miracle Sherlock had provided for John when he asked for it (or two years after he had asked for it, more precisely). I now to see this scene as an understanding between John and Sherlo
…Introductions Please... » Hello from Switzerland » January 21, 2014 8:48 pm |
Thanks everyone for your lovely welcomes
His Last Vow » Sherlock's love for John » January 21, 2014 6:09 pm |
silverblaze wrote:
I thought the 'ages' remark referred to Whitney. Like he said to the neighbour she'd better ask Sherlock to investigate than come to him, because he really didn't know where he was, hadn't seen him for ages.
Yes, he said to Whitney that he hand't seen Sherlock "for ages", which Mary corrected into "one month!" Taking into consideration how VERY keen John was on getting out of the house to do his own little inverstigation in the drug den, and just how generally frustrated he seemed in that scene, I don't doubt that he had started to sorely miss his life with Sherlock, and not having been out on a case with Sherlock for a whole month had, indeed, felt like ages to him.
His Last Vow » What Sherlock did... » January 21, 2014 12:58 pm |
Criosdan wrote:
In my opinion there is only right and wrong.
I really wish this was true, life and my job in particular would be so much easier if it was But on the other hand, also much more boring . . .
His Last Vow » What Sherlock did... » January 21, 2014 12:20 pm |
@Swanpride By the way, I'm not saying your arguments are wrong. You're arguing on the side of the prosecuter, I'm arguing on the side of the defender. I'm not sure who would actually "win" or be more convincing in court, but I think we both would have a shot. As so many things in life, the law isn't always just black or white / right or wrong.
His Last Vow » What Sherlock did... » January 21, 2014 10:50 am |
Swanpride wrote:
I am not so sure about it, since the deed is done to conceal an illegal action.
I would agree to that if CAM had just threatened to expose Mary so she would be put behind bars. In that case it would have been CAM's life against Mary's freedom, and life has to be valued higher than freedom, especially given that it would not be unjustisfied to put Mary in jail. But CAM actually threatened Mary's life by pointing out that he knew poeple who would kill her if they knew where and who she was. Because of that, it was her life against his life and the law doesn't value her life less because of what she did in the past. According to the law, putting her in jail would be justified, but killing her? No. In some countries it wold be, of course, but not in Europe.
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