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Fan Videos » Is this the ultimate post-Reichenbach Anthem for John, or what? » July 12, 2014 3:13 am

Down to references to the singer being "broken" when they met, and "I was sinking, you were rising," (John was sinking in depression and purposelessness; Sherlock was rising in his profession)

And "you were the missing link that helped me break my chains."

Because of the line about "lay beside me", it does imply the singer and the dead person had a romantic relationship...but...just barely. And it's definitely about a death rather than a breakup.

A Scandal In Belgravia » "Till you beg for mercy, twice..." » July 9, 2014 10:00 pm

Liberty wrote:

But in real life, people are assaulted and carry on wanting consensual SM if that's what they wanted beforehand.  It's a bit like saying that people who have been sexually assaulted wouldn't ever have consensual sex.  (And of course some might be so traumatised that they might not, but it's not a given).  If anything, I'd see him continuing to have that interest (if he'd had it before) as normal and healthy, rather than emotionally different. There's just such a world of difference between non-consensual and consensual.

But I haven't got to that part of the series yet (still trying desparately to savour each episode for an extended period) so what do I know?   I'm just generalising. 

That's a good point about the consent...I saw a piece of another crime show ("Law and Order" or some such) where someone who dealt in those kind of practices had been murdered, and they investigated her "establishment." And I remember there was something about how the "clients" who were "subs" had the "true power" because they were allowed to end the proceedings at any time just by saying so...not sure that was true with Irene.

It is possible to infer that Sherlock doesn't mind being on the receiving end of all of that, even in his work...but the thing I keep coming back to is, Sherlock absolutely HATED CAM "for preying on people who are different." Shouldn't he then have felt a little more negatively towards Irene for exploiting people's kinks and then embarassing them? Sherlock may not come off as moralistic most of the time, but in HLV he was shown as having a big moral objection to blackmail.

(Which is consistent with the Doyle Milverton story, by the way. But there it's not inconsistent for him to admire Irene, because she is definitely NOT engaged in the same kinds of doings as Milverton.)

I know people have speculated about whether Irene and Sherlock "had dinner" after he saved her. I saw a comm

Series Four Suggestions & Ideas » Possible "dark twists" in S4 » July 9, 2014 9:52 pm

SolarSystem wrote:

I don't want to get into a discussion about Mary again, so just this: I'm not sure she deserves a second chance, because even after everything that happened because of her, she did not once say "I'm sorry, I made a mistake". When she's in 221B with John and Sherlock, instead of saying she's sorry that she shot Sherlock, she defends herself by saying that because of people like CAM there are people like her. Well. I don't see her regretting anything she's done, and in order to deserve a second chance she at least should show some remorse.

If it wasn't for Mary's having shot Sherlock, I could think of ways she could be "redeemed," or her past not as bad as it sounded, like...someone planted a false background either to trap CAM or for some other reason.

Fan Fic » Johnlock Fic Recs *warning - adult content* » July 8, 2014 3:08 am

"One Week" by Jane Turenne: Holmes and Watson make a wager as to who has stronger powers of resistance, and then spend a week trying various gambits to seduce each other: serenading (for Holmes); telling their explicit dreams; dressing up in outfits the other likes (Holmes nearly passes out when he sees Watson in military garb), BUT - it's a perfectly-established relationship and they're totally comfortable with each other. I think Jane must have been trying to get the UST and seduction without the angst that often comes with not-yet-established:

Fan Fic » Favourite Quotes from Fan Fics *warning - possible adult content* » July 8, 2014 2:57 am

ancientsgate wrote:

SherlocklivesinOH wrote:

In "The Sum of Us," John and Sherlock have been, um, doing it, for a while, and John is just starting to be more open about it. Here's the quote where he ashes out after getting a negative reaction from some older friends (rugby team):

I read that one quite a while ago, and I remember the scene from which you've quoted here. It was quite a scene and very well done. It can be hard to write realistic-sounding dialogue, but I agree, the author did well!

Perhaps because, among other things, the homophobia is not SO over-the-top, as it is when an author really wants to make a character "bad"? And it deals with the issue that I think is often at the root of homophobia: "Does he want me? And would I really NOT be interested if he did?" 

I like anything where one of the boys verbalizes how attractive they find the other - especially when it's TO each other, as part of the preliminary stages of, well, you know...

In this Katie Forsythe fic, Holmes tells the story of how his first partner betrayed him (and was caught with another man). Watson replies:

"I cannot imagine a man who could have you would ever waste his time with lesser creatures."

Same sentiment. 

Fan Fic » Favourite Quotes from Fan Fics *warning - possible adult content* » July 7, 2014 2:22 am

In "The Sum of Us," John and Sherlock have been, um, doing it, for a while, and John is just starting to be more open about it. Here's the quote where he lashes out after getting a negative reaction from some older friends (rugby team):

You worried I’m secretly lusting after you? That it? Well allow me to burst that bubble for you, I wouldn’t touch your lardy arse with a ten foot pole. Yeah, I fell in love with a bloke. A beautiful, tall bloke who outsmarts all of us put together and who is infinitely better than you in any way you can imagine. So don’t you worry your ignorant little head about how I might turn into some kind of gay predator out to shag every single one of you cause trust me, I got something so much better to go home to.”

Sherlock has, er, a "sexual consultant" in this one, too. See who it is.

Any time, in a fanfic, John raves (or sighs) about Sherlock's beauty, I figure the writer must be pretty, well, Ben-addicted. That's usually how it is with fan fic writers - "into" one or the other of the actors. 

Series Four Suggestions & Ideas » Possible "dark twists" in S4 » July 7, 2014 1:13 am

I would say Season 3's twists (or at least HLV's) were pretty dark in themselves. I'm actually hoping for explanations that make everything not as bad, as we had with Season 2.

His Last Vow » Things Re-Hashed Or Re-Used from The Reichenbach Fall » July 7, 2014 1:12 am

maryagrawatson wrote:

I also see a big parallel between TRBF and HLV, but the latter resonates much more emotionally with me.

I have always had a problem with TRBF that is even greater now that we've had season 3. I just don't know what's real in it. How much was Mycroft and Sherlock working against Moriarty and how much was Moriarty being smarter than Sherlock? I also don't know which of Sherlock's emotional moments were real. It's just a big jumble that feels even more muddled after TEH. I watched the episode after TEH before moving on to the rest of season 3 and knew that would be the last time. TRBF leaves me feeling frustrated.

HLV has a lot of the same points as the TRBF, but it's just done better, in my opinion. In this episode, I know for sure that the master criminal is way smarter and ahead of Sherlock. I know that Sherlock's emotions are real and therefore his decisions and actions make my heart thump. This time, his sacrifice isn't just a few years of his life, but the rest of it. It's basically as if the writers realised what a mess TRBF was and made a tighter version of it with HLV.


Actually, now that we know that the whole time we thought Moriarty was destroying Sherlock, it was Sherlock  (or "the Holmes brothers") playing with Moriarty...I am holding out hope that they had some additional aces up their sleeves with regard to Magnussen. The parallel between the two seasons is what gives me that hope.

Because, somehow, even if the British government can't truly punish Sherlock (jail or exile him) due to needing him, the fact that he had to resort to murder feels to me like a victory, if not for CAM, then, ironically, for Moriarty, because Sherlock in a sense became what his enemies were saying he was.

Character Analysis » Not so different? » July 7, 2014 1:06 am

Sherlock says in his Best Man speech that John "saved" him.

Which presumably means John has made him a "better" person somehow - perhaps better at getting along with people? Better-adjusted in some ways?

The thing is...I don't see John having a lot to offer in that area. He seems to have very similar "demons" to Sherlock's:

- not good with emotions - the only one we really see him express is anger, and he lashes out with it.

- not that good with relationships, at least, they don't last until Mary (though maybe this is at least partly BECAUSE of Sherlock)

- his motivation for being involved in Sherlock's work is essentially the same as Sherlock's - the excitement - far more than caring about people. That was never clearer to me than in TEH where he went with Sherlock to the underground. He was still mad at Sherlock, so if he would still go then, it showed how addicted he was to the adventure.

I don't see him as that caring, I guess because he always seems P.O. at everyone. 

And I actually think that, before he and Sherlock met, in some ways, Sherlock was functioning better, because he had a purpose in life: his work. If he had that, he had something to interest him. Whereas John was drifting and had nothing. Sherlock, in that sense, saved him.

John seems like he's the more alone of the two, in a strange way, at least as of Season 3. He doesn't seem to have friends or family besides Sherlock (is he estranged from his whole family in canon, or is that the fanfic I've read?)

And, for all Sherlock talked about John being his only friend, and being better-off alone, he had a HUGE number of people come through for him to help him fake his suicide. He may not consider them all close friends as he does John, but he had to trust them in a big way to use them in that plan. I can see how that plan would have made the deception worse for John - Sherlock was making the excuse of not trusting everybody, but it seems like there he trusted everyone BUT John.

In fact, I th

It's Canon » Was anyone surprised by this? » July 4, 2014 7:00 pm

The premise of SCAN, in canon: the King of Bohemia says Irene will "ruin" him by exposing their past affair. That is, the King's current fiance, a princess, is SO puritanical that she will not marry him if she knows he ever had anything to do with an "adventuress."

Now, I know this is Victorian England,and it was presumed that women were shocked by sexual matters. And no doubt the standards of conduct for men were different than they are today. But I guess I would have expected the usual double standard, with men being allowed to have those kind of "adventures" before marriage (and perhaps during), and the highly-born wives being conditioned to either accept it, and perhaps be grateful not to be "imposed on" for sex, or else regard it as all the slutty adventuress's fault for being available. In which case Irene would damage herself more than she would the King, by saying anything.

There IS a double standard in the sense of "She was so exciting but she's not good enough to marry," (I think the King is still hot for Irene, actually), but the point is, the affair seems to threaten the man's reputation, at least his political position, as well.

The Sign of Three » The opposite of Sholto » July 4, 2014 6:49 pm

I know that's a weird title, and this actually refers to someone who hasn't shown up in the BBC series.

But, in Doyle canon, there is one young inspector, Stanley Hopkins, who is something of a Sherlock Holmes fanboy. In a proper Victorian way, of course, but where other inspectors show distrust or jealousy, Hopkins has only admiration. Readers and fanfic writers who are into slash like to interpret that he has a crush.

So it made me wonder how John-of-BBC would feel if there was someone else admiring Sherlock that much and wanting to work with him and learn from him (and in today's British television the guy could even be openly gay.) I wonder if it would be the equivalent of how Sherlock felt about Sholto?

I guess you could say Molly is the closest thing we've seen to this, and John doesn't seem to have a particular problem with her, but then, maybe her being female makes it not the same as his relationship with Sherlock?

The Sign of Three » This wedding is an extremely strange one! » July 4, 2014 6:37 pm

SusiGo wrote:

I can only agree. For me it is a love story between Sherlock and John taking place during a wedding at which a crime is solved. But - and this is the sad thing - it is mainly unrequited love on Sherlock's side, at least most of the time (if we exclude the stag night). 
All the things you expect to see - the proposal, the declaration of love, doing all you can think of to make the other person happy - is between Sherlock and John. 

Sherlock really did  make it his wedding, didn't he? Don't forget the scene when he tried to step into the wedding pictures...and the fact that we see him pledging him love, and John hugging him, not as much affection between John and Mary. Or if there is, it isn't central.

It really did make me think Mary could go along with one of those three-person "arrangements."

There's a lot of fanfic about the knee grab leading to a "first time" but I could see that applying to their practice dancing also.

Although there were times (the planning scene) when it was Sherlock and Mary doing the work, and John the least involved.


A Scandal In Belgravia » "Till you beg for mercy, twice..." » July 4, 2014 6:34 pm

Harriet wrote:

And he complains about being not helped by Mycroft earlier.

We don't see him having nightmares or something like we see John doing with regards to the war. 

But another reason I have trouble with the whole Sherlock/Irene thing is, part of Sherlock's work is being targeted by enemies who at least try to capture him, tie him up, etc. And it's NO game. It's a bit hard to believe he would voluntarily submit to bondage and such "in fun." Seems like it should be traumatic. Unless it's an example of how he doesn't feel the things the way most people do. 

Not that he doesn't HAVE any emotions, but that they operate and manifest differently.

Current Affairs » Fun Question About British Titles and Same-Sex Marriage » July 4, 2014 3:07 am

It's my understanding that a woman who marries a man in Britian who receives a knighthood has the title "Lady." Agatha Christie's archeologist husband was knighted; she was "Lady Mallowan," and then later she was given the female version in her own right (Dame Agatha.)

So, if Sherlock received a knighthood (Doyle-canon, he actually refuses one, but it does get talked about in BBC), and married, say, Molly or Janine, one of the would be "Lady Holmes."

But I also hear the Britain is going to legalize same-sex marriage, if they haven't already.

So what if Sherlock married John? Or the reverse, what if John got the knighthood, for service to the country or something, and then they got married? 

Which actually raises the question about the husbands of women with the Dame title. 

The Sign of Three » the drunk tank scene » July 4, 2014 3:00 am

Good points! I noticed that we didn't see obvious signs of Sherlock being traumatized by Serbia...even in the mind palace scenes he didn't flash back.

The Sign of Three » David » July 4, 2014 2:56 am

I thought the "shoulder to cry on" thing might have taken place before John, when some other relationship ended...but now we know Mary didn't have time for a lot of relationships as Mary. On the other hand she hasn't known right from the start of when she changed her name. 

But it's a good point that Sherlock wouldn't have acted the way he did with David if he hadn't viewed him as a possible threat to John. The speculation has been raised about Mary's baby not being John's. That would certainly be a convenient way to get Mary and the baby out of the picture...but I wonder if, if Sherlock knew that, would he have been so protective of Mary and the baby?

I think Sherlock would be angrier with a woman for betraying John than for hiding her past as an assassin! Or, more selfishly, he might take advantage of the fact to get her out of John's life. Conversely, if the baby is John's, Sherlock might have strong feelings about it which explain why he protects Mary in spite of everything else...this baby is part someone he loves, and he doesn't seem to mind kids in general either, judging by his relationship with Archie.

Series Four Suggestions & Ideas » Possible "dark twists" in S4 » July 4, 2014 2:50 am

MartaSt wrote:

I really want to know how they are going to deal with Sherlock being murderer. Because according to law he is criminal now. What producers will do about that fact? And I'm also wondering about both Sherlock's and John's feelings about this. We know that Magnussen was evil but that was all in all murder. I really want to know if Sherlock will have some remorse. I know that he is not like normal human being but we saw his change in season 3 so I wonder how this affect his life. Maybe this dark twist is Sherlock being haunted by guilt.

I actually kind of wondered why the British government treated Sherlock as a murderer in this instance of killing CAM (whom they all hated), when it's really not that much of a stretch. If he was on an M16 mission in Serbia for the two years he was away, he's pretty much a "James Bond" for them, which is not THAT far removed from an "A.G.R.A." I am sure the British government employes people like Mary...

And speaking of Serbia, and "dark twists," I would think Sherlock would be experiencing some sort of emotional trauma or fallout from his experiences there. I don't think we saw obvious signs of that in S3. Even in the mind palace scenes, I don't think he flashed back to Serbia.

But given that the British government did criminally punish Sherlock for CAM, it kind of made me feel like we were back to the end of S2, where a villain set Sherlock up to be in disgrace. CAM may not have planned it, but it felt like him winning after all. EXCEPT - don't forget that all the time we thought Moriarty was destroying Sherlock's reputation and bringing him down, all along it was all part of the Holmes' brothers plan to bring down Moriarty. So I somehow feel they must have similar aces up their sleeves with regards to CAM. I feel that if we just leave it there, with Sherlock having committed a murder, it's a victory for CAM and, indirectly, Moriarty.

Someone raised the possibility of CAM asking Sherlock to help him fake his d

Other Adaptations » Jeremy Brett's Sherlock Holmes » July 4, 2014 2:33 am

Another fanfic writer I communicate with (I think she's here some of the time) said that, on forums that are focused on Brett (of course this includes his Holmes but looking at various things he's been in, so not Sherlock Holmes forums entirely) the subject of his relationships with  men is taboo and gets people flamed for bringing it up.

A Scandal In Belgravia » "Till you beg for mercy, twice..." » July 4, 2014 2:30 am

I know nothing about the whole BDSM thing...but some things I read say it's not entirely, or even primarily, about sex. In the media (and Irene is not the first dominatrix ever to be seen on TV, but usually they are murder victims or suspects), it's always coyly hinted that it's a form of kinky sex. 

I never saw Sherlock as wanting to be dominated...I was even surprised when I started reading Holmes/Watson fic from canon and Watson "took charge" in "private" matters (in a very non-BDSM way, just in the sense that he was more experienced). Because in canon, in other matters, it's clear that Holmes leads and Watson follows, most of the time.

I guess I always thought that if Sherlock Holmes were going to get involved with anyone, they would have to be either a very trusted friend or someone who had kind of a groupie mentality. But this Sherlock doesn't seem as independent in other areas of life...he seems like Mycroft controls a lot of what he does, for one thing.

And he was tortured in Serbia and doesn't seem to be suffering much from it.


Series Four News » New speculation about shooting and airing in 2015 » May 12, 2014 10:22 pm

Well, don't you think maybe Moffit and Gattis are waiting for the fans to generate theories so they can use them? I'm only half-joking, given what happened with Series 3. 

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