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Reichenbach Theories » Moriarty's Death » January 4, 2014 2:53 pm

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They never really mentioned much about Moriarty... assuming no body had been found on the roof, or thta they are keeping his death secret from the public then that could be why.

However is it possible that Moriarty was working with Mycroft or indeed Sherlock, they like eachother because they amuse eachtother. The only thing I didn't understand was that if Sherlock hadn't anticipated Moriarty would kill himself he would have to make his getaway fooling Moriarty into believing Sherlock was dead (sherlock knew that Moriarty wanted him dead). the Theory given as much as I like it would mean Moriarty would be able to see Sherlock had faked his death.

The main thing I can think of it s that information about Moriarty has been left so that if the writers want to they can bring him back at a later date (after all it is fiction!) but like Moffat said, they cant fake death at eachother what if they met eacother in the street?! He is dead... they have lied to us before but it also sounds pretty conclusive that he is not coming back

The Empty Hearse » Could Moriarty still be alive? » January 4, 2014 2:51 pm

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thank you, i was unawre of this http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/worried.png
http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/happy.png

The Empty Hearse » The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer?? » January 4, 2014 2:45 pm

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i have started a new topic as suggested!

The Empty Hearse » Could Moriarty still be alive? » January 4, 2014 2:43 pm

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They never really mentioned much about Moriarty... assuming no body had been found on the roof, or thta they are keeping his death secret from the public then that could be why.

However is it possible that Moriarty was working with Mycroft or indeed Sherlock, they like eachother because they amuse eachtother. The only thing I didn't understand was that if Sherlock hadn't anticipated Moriarty would kill himself he would have to make his getaway fooling Moriarty into believing Sherlock was dead (sherlock knew that Moriarty wanted him dead). the Theory given as much as I like it would mean Moriarty would be able to see Sherlock had faked his death.

The main thing I can think of it s that information about Moriarty has been left so that if the writers want to they can bring him back at a later date (after all it is fiction!) but like Moffat said, they cant fake death at eachother what if they met eacother in the street?! He is dead... they have lied to us before but it also sounds pretty conclusive that he is not coming back

What are your thought?

The Empty Hearse » The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer?? » January 4, 2014 2:15 pm

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macytree wrote:

sherlocked wrote:

On a more serious note: to put all Moriarty return theories to bed, has there ever been a public /acknowledgement, that Moriarty's body has been found and that he is dead? Anderson fantasizes about a mask on Moriarty's dead body. Does that mean, he knows about Moriarty being dead? If so, where did his body end up in the end? It cannot have been on the roof, because then Anderson wouldn't speculate, that Moriarty's body had been used. Or has Anderson gone completely gaga? Or Mofftiss didn't think this through and just wanted their gag, which was a good one, btw.

Im glad you brought this up Sherlocked I was just about to make a new post about it! I am also confused about the whereabouts of Moriartys body, and If anybody is actually aware that he is dead.

The first theory suggests that he is dead but nobody knows that he's dead. And that he is probably in Sherlocks fake grave or something.

The second (hilarious) theory suggests that he is still alive. Which would lead me to believe that the public probably doesn't know he is dead. 

And the third implies that he was still on the roof but gives no other info as to what happened to the body or if it was ever discovered. 

I am inclined to believe that his death has not been made public, and concealed in some way. But by whom, and why, has totally stumped me. Anybody have any ideas??

 

i think they have left Moriarty's death/or not death in some cases so unexplained because its fiction, they could then bring him back anytime they wanted to, this would create a new twist on the cannon!

Reichenbach Theories » Go on then...what are your theories? » January 4, 2014 2:01 pm

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i watched TRF after TEH, and everything seems to fit nicely and make sense.... the only thing that got me was that Sherlock wasnt expecting Moriarty to fake his death, so if his LAZARUS plan was going to be used and Moriarty was still alive then he would have seen he faked it... Sherlock knew that Moriarty wanted him dead so he knew he was going to have to fake being dead... maybe if Moriarty hadnt killed himself Mycroft's sniper would intervene? or as weird as it may seem Mycroft may have been working with Moriarty to ensure Sherlock would still survive.

Lookingback at TRF everything seems to fit and I think it works really well, im satisfied with that theory even if it only included a few things from my theory! what confused me was Anderson's reaction and it left me thinking if it was the truth or not, if Anderson hadn't reacted th eway he did or if the scene wasnt put in with the train scene I would have fully believed it but they have cleverly left us all with tthat shaddow of doubt to keep us talking!!!

The Empty Hearse » The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer?? » January 4, 2014 12:54 pm

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as far as it seems, if Moriarty is alive (which I really really want) it would be cool to see how he faked his death and what happened to him! but like Moffat said, they couldnt just fake death at eachother, what if they met eachother in the street, what would happen then? the writers are extremely clever and whatever the theory or how the explanation is given i will still watch the programme because it is genuinely amazing!!! http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/grin.png

The Empty Hearse » The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer?? » January 3, 2014 10:14 pm

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i think because of the way mofftiss writes we are expecting more, because we know they have left us without clues in the past, i really do hope the topic is brought up again in the series, but i think this time they really are leaving us uncertain.... thats the thing, they know how us fans work, i bet they are laughing away right now at the fact we think there will be more... i really hope there is though... like most people I am still not 100% if that theory is the one they are using as the 'real' one, but I dont see why they would have spent so long explaining it if it wasnt

The Empty Hearse » The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer?? » January 3, 2014 10:09 pm

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Swanpride wrote:

Who says that all the plans involved Sherlock "dying"? I think this was more the "last way out" and not specifically designed just in case that Moriarty would try to force him off a roof, but initially created in case Sherlock had to vanish off the radar for a while.

hmm... i like that... all he said was that he wanted to avoid dying if at all possible, maybe and as crazy as it seems Moriarty may have been in on it too, but he wont tell anyone because it would make him look weak. at the end of the day its fiction therefore they could change it whenever they want, we may not fully understand what happened until years later (i hope not though). either way I don't think we will be left disappointed in the end, but i would like to hear the rest of the 13 possibilites before the series finishes, even if it isnt mentioned in the series and the writers tell us themselves. im satisfied with the theory he gave Anderson, it works, but Anderson's reaction made me think is it real and left me with the nagging sensation that I think everyone else has been left with

The Empty Hearse » The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer?? » January 3, 2014 9:27 pm

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Stayin Alive wrote:

I don't believe the 3rd theory one bit! First of all, if you look back at TRF, you will see that the sniper aiming at John observed John's reaction, became convinced and VOLUNTARILY packed up his gun and left. But my main contention is that Sherlock had no clue Moriarty would "shoot himself" therefore, his plan had to be fool proof in case Moriarty was watching him as he fell. Sherlock would have no idea where Moriarty's people are but he knew they would be watching, so his plan had to be angle-proof to a certain extent. I also believe that if the entire explaination is revealed, it would clearly show that Moriarty isn't dead, therefore, it has to be saved for a future season when they will bring Moriarty back. When that happens, they will show the necessary flashbacks. Bringing him back this soon would ruin the show. So they choose to distract us for this season and probably the next, with the "lesser" criminal class and save the big guy up for last...maybe when they plan on retiring the show (I hope not!).

i agree, although there were 13 possible soloutions, Sherlock did say that he never predicted Moriarty would fake his own death, eventhough looking back at it, it was quite obvious to him. However the other soloutions he exlained like the laundry van would also have allowed Moriarty to see that he was faking it, I suppose Sherlock's plan relied on Moriarty giving the code word to hold off his snipers and Mycroft or someone coming in to arrest Moriarty... I don't think we'll ever know! (hope we do find out though) what I didn't get was that if Moriarty was still alive half of Sherlock's soloutions possibly wouldn't work. I think Moffat and Gatiss have done this to cause this reaction, I bet they are loving all of this, it's what they wanted. But i really do hope Moriarty comes back... it won't be the same without him!

The Empty Hearse » The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer?? » January 3, 2014 6:09 pm

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I can just see Moffat and Gatiss sitting in a pub with fish and chips talking over a pint of beer and saying... Ah our plan has worked, look at them all they are so confused, I wonder what it is like in their tiny brains? http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/wink.png

The Empty Hearse » The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer?? » January 3, 2014 2:23 pm

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all that was mentioned was that Moriarty had to be stopped, then Martin interupts and tells him he wants to know why he had kept it a secret from him, he wasn't bothered about Moriarty,thereofre they never really got to that explanation. all they said about keeping it from John was that it was Mycroft's idea, so they never elaborated on that either

The Empty Hearse » So that "clue everyone has missed". Do we know what that is? » January 3, 2014 12:33 pm

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another clue that I hadn't heard anyone mention was the fact that Mycroft had a sniper on Moriarty's sniper and intervened and that is why Moriarty's sniper packed up and went

The Empty Hearse » The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer?? » January 2, 2014 9:34 pm

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I don't see why they would spend about 10 minutes explaining a theory, if it wasn't the correct one? I don't think they will come back to it. I think the explanation is the truth, but he is not telling it to Anderson, but he could be tellling it to John on the train, but it jsut flashes to Anderson thinking the same thing. i know that idea is a bit too far, but i'm just waiting to enjoy the rest of the series (even if this will still be playing in the back of my mind, but I suppose thats what Moffat and Gatiss wanted) , and hope that they might bring the topic up again, if not then I'll assume it was the truth, and if they do bring it up again hopefully it will be explained in a clearer scenario or with a different explaination

The Empty Hearse » The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer?? » January 2, 2014 7:40 pm

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Read this online, prehaps we may be lucky or they are just playing with us...

Holmes explains his escape from the Reichenbach Falls to Watson in The Empty House, but refuses to do so in the TV version. In a recent interview, Steven Moffat and writer Mark Gatiss hinted that even the explanation Sherlock tells Anderson at the end is probably fictional. Gatiss remarked enigmatically, ‘It’s a very plausible solution.’

http://metro.co.uk/2014/01/02/sherlock-series-3-episode-1-the-empty-hearse-vs-the-empty-house-11-references-you-may-have-missed-4246955/ (source)

i'm stilling willing to accept that the third theory is correct if we don't hear otherwise, its still clever even if it doesnt quite fit with how i would imagine Sherlock to do it ;)

The Empty Hearse » The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer?? » January 2, 2014 7:33 pm

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sherlocked wrote:

Theory No 3 is a perfectly workable solution... but, besides having many holes, it's also the most boring one, at least IMO. Also Mofftiss kept saying, when we all speculated, that we were missing something, and no one had hit at the right solution. But the one, we were presented with yesterday was out there (with technical variations) right from the start. Has anyone noticed btw, that No 3 is simply the way, it was filmed? Keep the street clear with set people, let Sherlock jump on a huge pillow, throw a corpse or dummy down, so you can film the crash. Substitute the set workers with the homeless network and explain the missing pulse with the squash ball, and you have Theory No 3. Which could perfectly be, what Mofftis had in mind, when they conceived this, and when the avalange of theories flooded the net, they had to add a few ironical twists in order to keep everybody happy and guessing on forever. But, frankly, I expected, and still expect more from those brilliant writers. And, somehow I cannot believe, that they gave everything away in the first episode of the third season. At the moment I think, that ALL theories, which were presented so far, contain a kernel of the right solution, since each theory seem to explain something, but not everything. But then again, it's only evolving fiction. Maybe, they choose to cop out, because it just became to big to handle. In which case, we simply have to enjoy season 3 on it's own merit and forget the promises 'Reichenbach Fall' seemed to make. But I'm still hoping for a more satisfying explanation.

I agree, if the third theory is true I think Anderson's reaction is how the writers thought fans would react, they planned how he was going to survive before starting the second series and they didnt expect such a reaction from the Reichenbach fall, therefore Anderson's reaction could show how the writers thought everyone would react, if they hadn't left the clues in the Reichenbach fall, they couldn

The Empty Hearse » The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer?? » January 2, 2014 7:02 pm

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i don't mind the fact that he told Anderson, I think that scene is absoloutley brilliant, but its where the scene came in and how Anderson is 'disappointed' and starts going mental that causes uncertainty. i thought the show as a whole was amazingly clever and I don't think the writers would have left in uncertainty by accident... there has to be a reason why they did it... either let us decide ourselves or hopefully that we get the 'real' or a more in depth confident explaination of what happened

The Empty Hearse » The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer?? » January 2, 2014 4:43 pm

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each time I watch the bit with Sherlock explaining how he faked his death to Anderson the more I believe it. As Sherlock had blandly explained there were 13 possible ways of doing it, therefore he must have had every way set up and only at that last moment he would choose what method would work. with Moriarty supposedly killing himself Sherlock's options were limited and therefore he starts looking around to choose the best option. so it is possible that what he told Anderson is true (i dont know whether i believe its true because I wanted an answer or just because i dont think they will bring that subject up again in the series) he has already told us that he couldn't use the laundry truck so that is out of the picture and how many other ways can you jump off a roof and survive, they have used all the obvious clues in this theory and that is why I find i so believable, however there are other possibilites many others have not managed to find likewise with myself that could be more plausable and more clever than the one he gave Anderson.
The air bag seems too obvious, but i keep thinking back to the point moriarty told Sherlock on the roof... that's your weakness, you always want everything to be clever... this could hint that Sherlock's faked death is clever or that we all expect it to be clever and thats why we are doubting it... lets just say I am hoping that how Sherlock faked his death becomes more clear this series ( and also hoping that Moriarty  hasnt died either! it wont be the same without him ;) )

The Empty Hearse » The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer?? » January 2, 2014 3:43 pm

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the last episode: The last vow... just thinking, but isnt the last vow at a marrige service till death do us part... maybe we will become more confident then on how Sherlock faked his death and if what he told Anderson is wrong maybe the final episode will reveal what actually happened. i know that relating it to the marriage theme in episode 2 is probably obvious and the title for the 3rd episode probably has no relevence, but to me it could be a possiblity?

The Empty Hearse » The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer?? » January 2, 2014 2:46 pm

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Sherlock Holmes wrote:

Oddly enough, I would have accepted this theory and been happy with it, had Anderson not expressed his disappointment. As soon as he said that, I instantly felt disappointed too....

exactly how I felt, I was watching it thinking really? because they had already told us two other ways that he 'could' have faked his death, but anderson's reaction confused me and it made me think if the explanation was real. i know its what the writers want and theyve down a brilliant job of getting us to question how he did it. My question now though is will we ever be certian of how Sherlock faked his death, if the case is that what he told Anderson is not true, then when else will they tell how he faked it and will they at all?

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