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Random Sherlockiana » I thought this was funny » August 15, 2012 3:33 am

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Reading all the posts, comments, discussions on this forum is amazing. It proves what we have always suspected. People all see something different in the same thing.

Every time I watch an episode I see so much more in it. There are layers of meaning and layers of symbology. It's amazing how this series has captured so many people--the whole thing--acting, story, characters, elements embedded in the show that capture the mind and imagination of intellectuals.

It's nothing less than film as art.

Even people who just think it's a good movie enjoy it.

The actors in Sherlock are having real fun doing this series and it shows.

The Reichenbach Fall » IOU and it's potential meaning(s) » August 14, 2012 11:44 pm

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I don;t care what it "means". What did Moriarty owe Sherlock FOR? What was he wanting to revenge? 

The Reichenbach Fall » IOU and it's potential meaning(s) » August 14, 2012 4:51 pm

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Lupin wrote:

I definitely agree that the IOU is part of the ongoing dialogue between Sherlock and Moriarty, often signifying a move by Moriarty that culminates in the roof scene at the end.

I just don't think one can try to decompose IOU as referring to a periodic table or some other more complicated acronym that somehow plays an underlying role in explaining the end is all.

Me neither. People that love to find hidden meanings and codes in things will do it. Mostly for fun. Look what people did with the DaVinci Code (and Dan Brown cashed in on it.)

I'm sure there are all sorts of mythological symbols in all stories but I'll leave that to the likes of Joseph Campbell and their books.

General Sherlock Discussion » Alive or Dead? » August 14, 2012 4:46 pm

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I don't think there is a ghost of a chance that Martin would leave Sherlock. He and his agent must know a good thing when they see it.

Seeing the pictures of Hobbit movies, I think Martin is just going to look like John Watson going to a costume party.

The Reichenbach Fall » IOU and it's potential meaning(s) » August 14, 2012 3:31 am

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I do think there is definately a play on words written into it. Not necessarily obscure mystical meanings or codes.

IOU: I owe you. Is relative to what Sherlock says to M at the end...I AM you.

And IOU in this movie seems to imply revenge, not just owing SHerlock "a fall". (Even that is a play on words since the title of the episode refers to a waterfall.)

All it really means is that the writers are brilliant screenwriters.

General Sherlock Discussion » Alive or Dead? » August 14, 2012 3:20 am

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KeepersPrice asked about the Hobbit movies. I'm evidently confused after I saw on IMDb on Martin Freeman's page that one of the Hobbit movies it listed as "announced." So, yes, you're right about only 3 Hobbit movies--two done and only one to go. I think.  It also shows that Martin was in several other films recently. 

The Reichenbach Fall » IOU and it's potential meaning(s) » August 13, 2012 6:19 pm

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Davina wrote under one of these topics: "Don't make me into a hero, John. Heroes don't exist and if they did I wouldn't be one of them."

I think that ties in with Sherlock saying he was a fake.  That had a lot of meanings in itself.

Also what SH told Moriarty: don't make the mistake of believing I'm on the side of the angels. And declaring he WAS Moriarty. S had the intention of getting M up on that roof and killing him which in his own eyes was not being a "hero".

General Sherlock Discussion » Alive or Dead? » August 13, 2012 6:01 pm

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I can't find the comment again of "Sherlock Holmes" member who mentioned The Empty House. I'm reading my way up to that in the book anthology. But thanks for the tip.

General Sherlock Discussion » Alive or Dead? » August 13, 2012 5:51 pm

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Sherlock Holmes wrote:

Hm yes, I did wonder if they'd do it that way, because of course at the end of Final Problem we are 100% believing Sherlock is dead (or at least we're supposed to believe that). And yes, we would have known Sherlock was alive as soon as we'd heard there was a Series 3 (and if we'd read the Empty House).

I definitely think it's better that they showed him alive though. It gave us that immediate twist of "how did he do it?" and prompted all the masses of theories. Such a great cliff hanger to show him stood there in the graveyard and all the fandom thinking "But...what...I don't...uh...ARGH!"

And somehow it's a little more heartbreaking to think that we all know he's alive but John doesn't.

hToo, I wonder if some of what John says at the cemetery will be a part of the next episode. Generally, telling SHerlock that he owed him so much. (echo of IOU.)

And John saying, "Please Sherlock. Don't be dead."

But somehow I believe John is not the type of guy that shouts "It's a miracle." He caught himself when he started to get all emotional at the beginning when he spoke of it to his therapist. And also at the cemetary where his voice started to break up. What he did was turn and walk away like a military man.

General Sherlock Discussion » Alive or Dead? » August 13, 2012 5:40 pm

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hypergreenfrog wrote:

As you say, most viewers would have assumed - from reading the canon, or from the mere fact that S3 has been commissioned - that he must have survived. But I totally agree that it would have been nice not to KNOW, just to assume.
It would also have left the door open for a wider range of theories about the fall, ie. he could have jumped and only barely survived, and could have spent the next three years recovering.

But I do agree with the boss that this way John's grief is even more heart breaking, because we know it wouldn't be necessary if only...

My sentiments also.   

If I recall the next "episode" in the book, Dr. Watson was a little surprised and glad to see Holmes alive. That's like the understated Englishman, saying the way Hastings said "I say" to Poriot all the time. SH  apologized politely to Dr. W. saying only it was necessary that Watson's reacton had to appear genuine so that he, SH, could finish his quest of catching the rest of Moriarty's gang.

In this TV version, I think, John is going to be mightily pissed-off when Sherlock reappears. Since's he's been trained for combat in the army he's perfectly capable of beating the crap out of Sherlock. 

Also, Martin Freeman has been filming 3 Hobbit movies and lined up for the next one, (and possibly another in the middle?) so perhaps we'll see Sherlock solving a crime or two without Watson while Freeman is busy elsewhere.

Introductions Please... » American fan of all British crime shows » August 9, 2012 6:43 pm

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I don't think I'll read all 1800+ introductions. But introducing myself is good for my ego.

I love the new Sherlock series. I love the main stars and guest stars, also Lestrade and Molly. Very good actors for those parts. They all come across as real. I adore Andrew Scott's Moriarty.

I'm in New Mexico, god knows why, & live in a forest above Albuquerque at 7200 ft elevation. Yes, there is plenty of air up here. And Albuquerque NM is high desert the same elevation as Denver--mile high.

From back east, Washington DC area, I moved to Las Vegas NV by running off with a guy I knew for 2 weeks. I loved LV, stayed there & married him and had two more kids to go with my 2 other kids from my first marriage. All four of my kids were boys and I have about 9 grandkids more or less--only 2 or which are girls.   

I moved to NM because my 3rd husband wanted to built me a house. (He died in 2009 at age 61. He was the love of my life for 22 yrs.) And his mother lived here. (I had about a zillion people in my family and he had one brother, one cousin, an a niece and nephew. Talk about tiny families...)

I'm a writer. Blogger. PhD in Metaphyics. Compulsive talker and general know-it-all who thinks I'm smarter than most everyone else.  My job history was police department support, & home care and hospice.

Plus I can't read a post on here without wanting to comment on it.

The Reichenbach Fall » Why did Moriarty kill himself? » August 9, 2012 6:24 pm

Replies: 104

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Regarding my posts and comments, I ask questions to make people aware of and think about something, not because I want to know. Duh.

I have no trouble making my own conclusions and finding hidden meanings and spectulating as to what happened and will happen. I probably see way more meaning in everything than there really is. I'm Gemini, we do that. (Take American Beauty for one. I thought about it for an entire year.)

When I wrote here that the writers had some explaining to do, I didn't mean they have to explain themselves and why they wrote what they did/will. It's like the solution to the cliff-hanger in series 1 (season 1). They had to explain how S & J got avoiding getting blown up/shot to move on to the next story line.

The day Sherlock "dies" is, let's face it, the end of the series.

I hope they offer some reasons why M. offed himself. But they probably won't. Rule of thumb: leave 'em guessin' so they'll come back for more.

Thank you SandraNM

The Reichenbach Fall » Why did Moriarty kill himself? » August 9, 2012 5:55 pm

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Moriarty killed himself because he had to die according to the original story written by Doyle. (You may be surprised how close this series is to the original stories.)

BBC wanted to get rid of Moriarty but didn't want to show Sherlock to be a murderer. If Sherlock was written as a killer it would ruin the character as an admirable sleuth. (If he'd killed M. in self-defence it would make the solution to 'the final problem' be mere violence. And it's only American cops who're allowed to shoot badguys, haha.

In the Jeremy Brett version Holmes went to the Falls planning to take Moriarty out and was willing to sacrifice his own life to do so.

When it shows Watson imagining it he sees it as an accident when they go over the Falls.

If this episode of Sherlock is also John telling the story it's his impressions of events from his point of view not accually what happened. 

It had to be faked in any case because Holmes had to disappear, go "undercover" & catch the rest of Moriarty's gang seeking to replace M. I predict this is what the next episode to cover--->the gunman with the high-powered rifle that Doyle called a long-range air-gun. 

(If the cops had had to swear out a warrant for his arrest, for instance, it would have made a really pathetic ending in all versions.) 

I'm curious to see how the American network show will do the stories. That is IF I can understand Jonny Lee Miller's fake accent.

As far as Bob Downey, Jr's movie: that was all punch-em-out and shoot-em-up and not Holmes at all. Using the Holmes premise ruined the character of Holmes for countless non-reading average movie goers.   

Cheers and Toodle-ooo, SandraNM (forgive the typos, I'm tired of rewriting this entry.)

General Sherlock Discussion » Alive or Dead? » August 6, 2012 10:11 pm

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I think the writers/producers should NOT have let us know that Sherlock was still alive and unharmed at the end of episode 3 or season 2.

We'd know if he were dead if we heard the show was cancelled. (Or they switched to another actor to  replace Ben ie his fall required plastic surgery on his face.)

We'd think he was alive anyway. They don't kill off the title character. What would, say, Poirot be without Poirot for example.

But in the meantime Sherlock would sort of be Schrodenger's cat...alive AND dead at the same time.

tee hee hee

The Reichenbach Fall » Why did Moriarty kill himself? » August 2, 2012 10:48 pm

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There is something no one seems to have mentioned--not that I read every post on here--but Why did Sherlock say "Give me some privacy, please" on the ledge before he laughed and turned back to say to Moriarty"I have you" referring to way for M to call off the assassinations?

I think one reason Moriarty offed himself was to prevent Sherlock from forcing him to call them off.

Another reason is that Moriarty wanted to frame Sherlock for his murder if his (M's) plan should go a different way.

Another  reason is the writers wanted Moriarty out of the way so Sherlock would be able to call John and give the signal to "Molly and everyone else" (which was part of what he said to John). Of course he could have phoned his suicide note to John with Moriarty there but it wouldn't have had the same dramatic effect.

Also, I've not figured out how Sherlock knew Moriarty was going to make him commit suicide. Sherlock planned to fake his own suicide and planted the idea in Moriarty's mind? He didn't know M. would set up the assassinations of his friends. Nor suspected that M. was going to suicidehimself.

The whole scene on the roof had an aura of being contrived on both S. and M's parts as if they putting on a show for each other. (Some it was sincere but basically it seemed both M and S were setting something up beyond what they were actually saying. (I'm putting this badly but I hope you will get what I mean.)

With all these speculations and possible scenarios, I'd just like to say to the writer about the next  season: "Lucy, you have some 'splainin' to do!"

It will be a treat seeing how the screenwriters will wiggle this episode of Sherlock out of all these predicaments. All the obsessed fans aren't going to settle of anything less than genius.

I'm an obsessed fan. Hurry up with Season/Series 3 and take us off the hook.

The Reichenbach Fall » Why did Moriarty kill himself? » August 1, 2012 6:39 pm

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Being a writer I always see the actor and his/her performance of a character more than I see the actual character .

It's funny you should say you were finding yourself wanting to like the #@!*^%* guy (Moriarty.)

I thought A.S. was excellent to the point of my falling in love with him, his Moriarty, and the whole movie (not to mention the series.) I'm also fond of Freeman and Cumberbatch (and want to see more of all three in performances equal to the ones in Sherlock.) Rah Rah. (A.S. is in a short British movie of The Duel. He was very good but not of the caliber he is as Moriarty. (It's interesting that for a man of slight build he can create larger-than-life, powerful characters.)

That's why comitting suicide in TRF was so out of character. But he did say he was 'ssssoo  changeable'.

BTW, I feel the way about Scott/Moriarty that I did about The Phantom of the Opera, the character and Gerard Butler. I and a great deal of other women fell completely in love with "them". Most of us were old enough to be GB's mother. I found myself disappointed the Phantom wasn't more wicked. (But that was a musical. The day Lloyd Webber turns his attention to Sherlock that would just be so wrong.)

As long as I can still play my PBS DVD I'll always have Moriarty at my fingertips (Is that an expression in England?) even if they don't bring him back in Sherlock the series.

The Hounds Of Baskerville » The first scene with Sherlock craving for a smoke/a case. » July 31, 2012 8:18 pm

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To Moderator/Big Mouth.

If you recall in episode 1 series 1, Sherlock is covered with nicotine patches. Says they help him think. Probably by taking his mind off severe craving cigarettes. Some people are really hooked. Some people need self-medication. 

Doyle's Sherlock he used cocaine.

There was a slight mention by John of Sherlock having had a druggie background. "You? Of all people?"

Sherlock is borderline 'mental' and manic behavior is exaggerated in people with bipolar or OCD.

BTW, S's only beginning to act "human" because John is helping him with socially acceptable behavior...'say thank you', 'just put the hat on'...

WIthout cigerettes and nicotine patches Sherlock is also displaying his emotions. I.E., caring about people, asking for help, feeling sad or afraid before he jumps (relying on people?) and most of all anger.

So no I don't think he was over doing it in that scene... the director told him to too.

I find some scenes like the bloody spear scene and the scene where he tries on a yellow slicker to be comedy elements. Funny wrapped up in crazy, intelligence vs. emotions. I like ironic humor. Most people don't get it. Oops. Feeling superior to ordinary people like S. and M. 

HmmmI never caught that...S (sherlock) and M (moriarty).  S & M.

Meet The Members » MEMBERS POLL: What's your age? » July 31, 2012 7:53 pm

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I am a 67 year old American woman. With a PhD

The Reichenbach Fall » IOU and it's potential meaning(s) » July 31, 2012 7:49 pm

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I think the "ash" theory of IOU is wrong. Or maybe a puzzle for super-intelligent people (on the level or Sherlock and Moriarty) to uncover on a deeper level. That might be all it is and not a "clue".

The Reichenbach Fall » IOU and it's potential meaning(s) » July 31, 2012 7:45 pm

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I haven't got an inkling as to what IOU means. It's baffling and I don't think there are any red herrings.

There are many forshadowings and repeated images. The most obvious is the clues leading to "fake suicide".

There are also dozens of links to TRF from all the preceeding episodes. More like Forsyth Saga than Inspector Lewis. I tell people to be sure to watch Sherlock series from the beginning.

I have a weak idea what IOU means: Moriarty owes Sherlock for creating him (Moriarty) as a notorious, going-down-in history master criminal. He found an equal intellectual and was finally able to match wits against him. A real rival finally after being surrounded by boring ordinary people.

But then why was he surprised at the end to find out Sherlock was him, listening intently and saying yes, you are me.

IOU could mean a lot of other things but I'm unable to unravel them to find out what.

Also IOU for something Sherlock did to him and he wants revenge. But what?

Maybe he thinks Sherlock stole the affection of Irene and Molly from him and that's why he takes Kitty away from Sherlock. (allegiance nor love I would say.)

Or Sherlock ruined his career as not only master criminal in charge of things in London and the world. Plus Sherlock ruining his career as a TV storybook man for children? That may be how he scared the children to scream when they saw Sherlock. Putting Sherlock as the villian/ogre in a fairytale. "Every story needs a good villian...

IOU has something to do with The Final Problem element?

Or the painting Sherlock recovered The R. Fall. Was Moriarty also an art thief and Sherlock twarthed him? By the time he comitted suicide he'd given up on caring about anything...too boring and mundane. Sherlock was the Final Problem to him. Not only did Sherlock make him a famous criminal, Sherlock then took that away from him. He wanted to return the favor. IOU means IOU for making me a notorious criminal and IOU for taking that away from me by the end of the

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