People probably don't see the AGRA work as dodgy because due to clever writing we were only shown the not so bad parts of it.

Somebody who tries to free hostages and is betrayed will always get sympathy.

Showing us the dirty aspects of it would not have needed more than two minutes screen time. You could have cut the scene with Toby for example without losing too much. But the clear goal of the writers was to raises sympathy instead of solving the "You won't love me / bad bad girl" expectations that were built up in HLV.

I think we have reached a point of discussion where it comes down to what people like, and you cannot find an agreement there.

I am not satisfied with her so-called redemption arc, partly because she never apologised, I am not satisfied with the missing explanation of how bad she really was, and I am absolutely sure that the marriage was not a happy one.

I am not bemused by people who see it on a different way, btw. Why would I? It's a matter of taste, concerning the character and concerning the way of story telling.

nakahara wrote:

The problem with Mary, nicely defined in three short posts:

https://iamjohnlocked4life.tumblr.com/post/161368025685/bbcatemysoul-bbcatemysoul-bbcatemysoul

So true!

Liberty wrote:

Another alternative that I don't think I mentioned but had in the back of my mind, is that they'd originally been planning something a little different than the TST story we saw, and there really was something worse at some point, but that they later changed it.    There's quite a gap between S3 and S4, so it's possible. 

Yes, thst is likely I think. That would also explain the inconsistency in Mary's character and the sudden absence of ambiguity in other parts of the show.

Me too!!!

Wow, that sounds really interesting. A hidden meaning?

Liberty wrote:

But she's wrong about John not loving her any more.  We're shown that.   She think she would lose him if he finds out, and he doesn't.   So what we see is what we get, I think.  

At this point, we have to agree to disagree, I guess.

I don't think that we habe seen all there is, jud ging by how it was built up in HLV and TAB.

Welcome back dear! So glad to know you've had a wonderful time.

SusiGo wrote:

I think this is a point that is very much up to personal taste. And I did not criticise anyone's acting. For me it is mainly due to how the scenes were written and filmed that makes the difference. 

I just wanted to write the same. :-)

Vhanja wrote:

As for Mary, I do think she has done worse things than what we are being shown and told. Remember Magnussen talked about her going freelance - what did she do then? There are certainly things she's done that we haven't been told. And I don't think Mary ever thought she would lose John's love if she told him she was part of a team to rescue a team of hostages.
 

I fully agree with you here!

And Susi, I am also moved so much more by Sherlock's death than by Mary's. Martin's acting has been so subtle in TRF and so ... not subtle in TST.