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May 1, 2018 5:40 pm  #8161


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

I don't think it was a question of guts.
They didn't see a romantic relationship in the original text.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

May 1, 2018 5:41 pm  #8162


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Fantastic!   This looks like a lot of fun!  I really like the look of this slightly older Holmes and Watson. 

I don't know if it's fair to say that Moftiss didn't have the guts, though.  I may be wrong, but I genuinely believe that it just wasn't how they saw the characters.  I know I've said it before, but perhaps it was because they came across the characters as children, when the idea of a platonic love would be so much more appealing than a "romance".  If you really see the characters as having a beautiful friendship, the greatest friendship in literature even, then maybe you wouldn't want to take them down a different route and make them lovers?

 

May 1, 2018 6:52 pm  #8163


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

I really do not want to start the discussion of how they constantly used romantic tropes again. Suffice to say that even Time Out Magazine had them as their favourite romantic couple some years ago, ahead of William and Kate if I remember correctly. If there were no indications of this in the show, not so many people would have expected and wished for a romance. 

Anyway, I am glad to see that the team behind this short film finally took the step. 


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
 

May 1, 2018 6:57 pm  #8164


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

As I have said before :  I would have been delighted if Mark and Steven had gone down the gay route.
But I understand why they didn't and am pleased with how the series turned out.
Well, people might have hoped for all sorts.
But I remain delighted at the modern portrayal of the greatest ever literary male friendship.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

May 1, 2018 7:05 pm  #8165


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Here is an interesting little video by the team: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqM-DvL9N_s


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
 

May 1, 2018 7:08 pm  #8166


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Well, they definitely acknowledged and referenced Johnlock.  But in the end, they chose to show friendship, and I do believe it wasn't because of lack of courage, but because of the way they saw the characters.  Especially as the world has moved on since 2010 ... even if they'd been scared to show it then, it would have been much easier to do so in later years.  

(The Time Out article was supposed to be humorous, I think!)

 

May 1, 2018 7:11 pm  #8167


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

But why this change of heart? I still find it doubtful to create such expectations, reference such tropes, and then to go down a route where John's wife is present in more than half of the episodes (something no other adaptation has ever done, Granada Holmes even omitting her completely). I really feel for the people - many of them very young - for whom this was personally important and who felt let down. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
 

May 1, 2018 7:16 pm  #8168


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

I am sorry, Susi. This is something I do feel quite strongly about.
A show can be outstanding for many reasons and yes certainly, one of them could be for being ground breaking in presenting any partcular cause,  issue, group or whatever....
But all TV doesn't have to be like that.
Sherlock was a reimagining of the classic ACD stories, that is all.
It worked for me.
TV makers are beholdant to nobody except themselves and the company they work for...
Once again, this is why we have fan fiction.
Incidentally, maybe I've just been lucky:  but my gay friends don't have a problem with the show at all.

Last edited by besleybean (May 1, 2018 7:17 pm)


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

May 1, 2018 7:32 pm  #8169


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Aw, that is lovely! I'm glad someone finally made it.

I would of course have wished for it to be "our" Sherlock and John as well, but I never thought it had anything to do with guts. 


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings
http://i.imgur.com/NzWTIDd.png

Team Hudders!
 
 

May 1, 2018 8:06 pm  #8170


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

I don't think there was a change of heart.  I think they took the friendship path right from the beginning (while acknowledging how shippable they were). 

I feel sorry for the people who were so invested too.  I hope they were OK after S4.  I'm hoping that maybe some of them got into the last series of Doctor Who (with its gay main character - a lovely role model for young people!). 

 

May 1, 2018 8:15 pm  #8171


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

There are enough adaptations which go down the friendship route and BBC Sherlock is remarkably different. If there had been no romantic elements, Martin probably would never have made that "gayest show in TV history". As for stressing (IMHO) John's relationship at the cost of the "Sherlock and John Show" I would like to quote Jeremy Brett:

"The character of Mary Morstan was removed from the stories in which she originally features: nothing ought to get in between Holmes and Watson. She would have got in the way. Watson was more in love with Holmes - in a pure sense - than he could have been with a woman."
 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
 

May 1, 2018 8:18 pm  #8172


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Anyhow, I'm with Martin(see his quote in the othert thread):
I don't like the tail wagging the dog.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

May 2, 2018 8:32 am  #8173


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

That´s a bit out of context, isn´t it? In fact, he said:

"There's a certain aspect that some fans are going to run with the ball and make their own thing out of your show – which is completely fair enough, as long as we all acknowledge that that is what is happening. I think when you get into a slightly tail-wagging-the-dog scenario, that gets boring for me."

The quote you made out of it sounds as if he treated the audience like his handlers, which is not the case.

Anyway, I´m really glad for that short movie and wish them all the luck and success. If big BBC echelons are not willing to fulfill fan´s expectations, somebody else will do it - which is fair and square. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/grin.png


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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

http://49.media.tumblr.com/eb0e156f55878fcd6f89dcf91ae89811/tumblr_o0eyyzrphE1spvwrzo2_1280.gif
 

May 2, 2018 7:48 pm  #8174


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

And of course people are free to watch every series they choose to.
I remain solidly a BBC Sherlock fan.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

May 17, 2018 11:09 am  #8175


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Not bad, not bad at all!

https://78.media.tumblr.com/e594fcd0927bcb7cf3c963432557b79e/tumblr_p80v1wkuKe1v1dibmo1_1280.jpg

https://78.media.tumblr.com/bff413f87e8349e15859e50c2e170a01/tumblr_p80v1wkuKe1v1dibmo2_1280.jpg

https://78.media.tumblr.com/1f3f7f81a843fc7cddf5482b3e8653ff/tumblr_p80v1wkuKe1v1dibmo3_1280.jpg


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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

http://49.media.tumblr.com/eb0e156f55878fcd6f89dcf91ae89811/tumblr_o0eyyzrphE1spvwrzo2_1280.gif
 

May 17, 2018 1:30 pm  #8176


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

About time! http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/happy.png


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
 

May 17, 2018 5:34 pm  #8177


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Aww http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/love.png

 

May 17, 2018 7:25 pm  #8178


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

That is great. :D


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings
http://i.imgur.com/NzWTIDd.png

Team Hudders!
 
 

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