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January 14, 2018 8:46 pm  #8081


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Mark and Steven are huge Sherlockians.
They wrote the show they loved.
I very much doubt viewing figures came into it.
They never really seem very bothered by that kind of trivia.


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January 14, 2018 9:19 pm  #8082


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

If they were doing it for viewing figures, I don't think they'd have been so passionate about insisting that it wasn't going to happen! 

 

January 14, 2018 9:30 pm  #8083


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

I'm not so naive that I don't know that some people watch it in the hope of seeing a relationship, but that's not the same thing...


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January 15, 2018 5:36 am  #8084


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

I am a bit shocked by how boring I find the debate thread. Seems like the same old arguments and opinions over and over again. Fresh thoughts are talked down with the same old comments.

I am out. :-/


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I still believe that love conquers all!

     

"Quick, man, if you love me."
 

January 15, 2018 7:12 am  #8085


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Sorry to see you go, your choice. I for one wasn't complaining about the quality of debate.
EDIT: corrected typo.

Last edited by besleybean (January 15, 2018 4:54 pm)


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January 15, 2018 7:48 am  #8086


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

I don't think it's boring, but I do think it's different now that the question has been answered. 

I know I'm giving some of the same arguments, and I apologise, but it is difficult when we don't have any new material!  I just don't have any new answers to the points Susi brought up!   (And I don't know if the post that was linked was really a fresh idea.  The idea that "moving on" is ambiguous is right there in the script because it leads into Mrs Hudson's misinterpretation).   I suppose things might mean something different in the light of S4, and maybe there are still things to discuss there, but in the end, I think we do know now that it wasn't intended to be a sexual/romantic relationship.  And that almost puts an end to the argument, or at least a different slant on everything. 

Of course, it's still possible that other members of the crew (not the writers and actors) were shipping them! 

 

January 15, 2018 10:02 am  #8087


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Schmiezi wrote:

I am a bit shocked by how boring I find the debate thread. Seems like the same old arguments and opinions over and over again. Fresh thoughts are talked down with the same old comments.

I am out. :-/

Well, yes, but I am so desperate to discuss anything Sherlock that I don't mind repeating old stuff. 


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January 15, 2018 11:23 am  #8088


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Vhanja wrote:

Schmiezi wrote:

I am a bit shocked by how boring I find the debate thread. Seems like the same old arguments and opinions over and over again. Fresh thoughts are talked down with the same old comments.

I am out. :-/

Well, yes, but I am so desperate to discuss anything Sherlock that I don't mind repeating old stuff. 

Me too, but I think I'll move to tumblr for a while. I did not expect me to feel this way about the forum. I was looking forward to coming back but somehow I am not as enthusiastic as I should be.


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I still believe that love conquers all!

     

"Quick, man, if you love me."
 

January 15, 2018 4:56 pm  #8089


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

I suppose only you can decide if that is a forum or a Sherlock issue...I actually hope it's neither!


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January 15, 2018 5:29 pm  #8090


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Yeah, well it is too quiet here for my taste, I think there still is plenty to talk about.

I am glad they didn't end up in a sexual relationship. That doesn't mean they don't have a romantic relationship. Or that I wouldn't fancy an "I love you" from one to the other. ;)
It is difficult to explain in what kind of relationship I "ship" Sherlock and John.
I don't know, I got the impression that a huge part of the hardcore fandom (and some people here in this forum?) is bitterly disappointed that they didn't get their Johnlock ending/kiss/sexual relationship/gay outcome/whatever by the end of series 4. Correct me if I'm wrong. I think for example of the great YouTube channel Rebekkah and her TJLC and the community behind this.

But I for myself LOVE it, I really really honestly love it where series 4 brought our two main characters, see their interaction and character development!!! I love all the "Johnlock" that we got in series 4. Perfect moments for me. I couldn't have hoped for better. Maybe it is because I am late to the fandom (I joined it when series 3 aired) or that I generally don't like character shippings in fanfictions or I am one of those weird(?) persons who think platonic love to be great. Is platonic an ideal that in reality can't be reached?? 
I suppose the term platonic love comes quite close to what I like for Sherlock and John. But still somehow more than that, more than friendship: a bromance, soulmates, family, yin and yang, being attracted so much by the other that living without the other is not possible.

Oh what I forgot: Whatever that was that Sherlock and Irene had, this unique relationship and there was an sexual aspect to it... I could say this could be the right "thing" for Sherlock and John, although it is not really possible to draw a comparison.

Last edited by Rache (January 15, 2018 5:57 pm)


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Breathing is boring!

English isn't my first language, feel free to correct me via PM!
 

January 15, 2018 5:42 pm  #8091


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Well I think their living apart is both possible and actually has already been done in the series. In fact, John is shown still in his own house, quite near the end of S 4, so I think he could still be there.
But certainly Sherlock misses John, despite genuinely liking Mary.
Their lives seem forever entwined.


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January 15, 2018 6:05 pm  #8092


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Yes, but like magnets they attract each other when they are apart.
Their lives being forever intertwined is a  nice expression as well, besley. ;)

Btw in my had canon, Jihn lives again in 221B by the end of series 4. That was my intuition right after/while the first viewing. And it still is. Although it is thinkable for ma as well that he lives somewhere else in a flat with Rosie after a lot of people saw it as the more plausible solution.

Last edited by Rache (January 15, 2018 6:06 pm)


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Breathing is boring!

English isn't my first language, feel free to correct me via PM!
 

January 15, 2018 6:08 pm  #8093


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Yes I am fairly certain in the final scene, John has arrived with Rosie, to join Sherlock and Greg on a case and is leaving Rosie at 221 B with Mrs H and Molly.


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January 15, 2018 7:02 pm  #8094


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

I'm very happy with what we got.  I wasn't expecting Johnlock anyway, but I do think we saw a lot of development in their relationship.  In fact, TLD may be more "about" their relationship than any other episode.  That hug was just perfect. 

But then, I wasn't looking for or particularly wanting a romance (not because I didn't want them to get together, but because I'm not a huge fan of the genre - although there are some romances that are among my favourite films/books, so I'm obviously hugely generalising).  I got what I wanted out of it, and I suppose I can understand why people who didn't were so upset.  Especially with so much resting on it.  I do hope the people in the community who were so invested in it (for their own identity and validation) have not been too upset and found something more rewarding to move on to. 

Anyway, I don't think they are living together at the end of S4, but I don't think it really matters.  They're clearly a partnership, "family", and in my head canon they will be until death .

 

January 15, 2018 7:05 pm  #8095


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

I should have added that I really think John should take Rosie and move back in with Sherlock.
If we ever got a S5, I would like to see that happen.


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January 15, 2018 7:11 pm  #8096


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Let's hope! 

 

January 15, 2018 7:58 pm  #8097


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Liberty wrote:

I'm very happy with what we got.  I wasn't expecting Johnlock anyway, but I do think we saw a lot of development in their relationship.  In fact, TLD may be more "about" their relationship than any other episode.  That hug was just perfect. 

Yep, that's what I meant.
 


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Breathing is boring!

English isn't my first language, feel free to correct me via PM!
 

January 15, 2018 7:59 pm  #8098


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

It really was the perfect hug and we need more of that!


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January 16, 2018 8:01 am  #8099


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

I never believed we would get Johnlock in the series either, I just love the concept of it. I enjoy the series for what it is, and find everything I miss in the series in fanfics and fan art, so I am happy. More than happy, actually, because the The Hug(TM) was more than I ever excpected we would get in the series. 

And, yes, for me as well, John moved back into 221B with Rosie at the end of the series. We have, in some form or another, Parentlock.  (That little scene was also more than I thought we would ever get).


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"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings


Team Hudders!
 
 

January 16, 2018 5:23 pm  #8100


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Well even if John and Rosie do move in to 221B, I suspect the burden of childcare will fall on Mrs H...so I don't see why she would be any less of a parent than Sherlock.
Unless Mrs H leaves us, of course.


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