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January 6, 2016 3:53 pm  #41


Re: The Feminist Aspect

I'm not really sure if I would call it feminist. Part of it was however justified (the abusive husbands) and I don't have much sympathy for that.
At that time the suffragettes did use violent means, so it's not really ahistorical (though it is dramatized)


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January 6, 2016 4:05 pm  #42


Re: The Feminist Aspect

I think it was implied that the case was a real case and that a group of real feminists actually did those crimes. Sherlock turned it all into a big dramatic play with costumes and gongs and things and cast people he knew as the characters.
Quite positively he imagined Molly and Mary not letting the restrictions of the time hold them back and that they would find a way to do whatever they wished.
I think there had to be some misogyny as it is victorian and there was in the original ACD . People don't complain about racism in the Hateful Eight or slavery in Gladiator. They didn't do badly for the genre they were working with .


"Man may not be degraded  to being a machine by being denied to be a ghost in the machine."
It's just transport. The virus in the hard drive . However impossible .Must be the truth.
 

January 6, 2016 4:33 pm  #43


Re: The Feminist Aspect

Swanpride wrote:

Mary (and remember, we are talking about mind Mary here, not real Mary) did tell John what she wants, he was just not listening.

Our fabulous Ariane de Vere already has a part of the transcript of the episode ready:

http://arianedevere.livejournal.com/81144.html

According to this transcript, John and Mary have this conversation on the matter:

MRS WATSON: I don’t mind you going, my darling. I mind you leaving me behind!
WATSON: But what could you do?!
MRS WATSON: Oh, what do you do except wander round, taking notes, looking surprised ...


Mary complains that John is leaving her behind. This is very vague - it´s obvious she would like to spend more time with John, probably even during cases, but that does not automatically equals "I absolutely hate my status as a domestic worker / organiser."

And John listens to her, but he is acting on the incomplete information here. He thinks that his wife is just a normal woman of an ordinary disposition. Why the heck would he take her with him on a mission that could eventually lead him to a gruesome crime scenes, opium-dens, into the brawls of ruffians, into a shady pubs... etc. It´s understandable why he thinks it would be dangerous for her. It is not sexism to be concerned about your loved ones that way, as well as it´s not sexist that both Sherlock and John are worried about Mary´s safety when they go meet her at the church...

The situation is similar as if a child asked you to take him/her into a war. Now, that child could be a cynical child-soldier from some African of Middle-East country, jaded and exposed to many battles and atrocities in the past... but as long as you wouldn´t know that, you would automatically presume that child´s request is ludicrous and it´s just an unreasonable notion of someone inexperienced and too out of it to comprehend the severity of the situation...

Plus, Mary taking part on John´s and Sherlock´s adventures would make many of them impossible to be realised. For example the canonical case of Charles Augustus Milverton. After the blackmailer was shot, John and Sherlock barely escaped from the servants and managed to save themselves only because they were athletic and dressed in the comfortable men´s clothing... if a woman dressed in a long robes tag-a-logged after them, they would all three be caught. She would be unable to run quickly and to climb fences in that dress and they would not abandon her and leave her behind in such situation....

Mary´s insult at the end... I´m speechless. That was so uncalled for. So she thinks her husband is a useless tag-a-log (which is obviously not true!), but she demands at the same time that Sherlock should take her on a mission also, so that he has two useless companions dragging after him instead of just one? (She cannot reveal to John yet that she is a God´s gift to mankind, so her request would have this connotation...)

Her contempt for her husband is awful. John is the one who singlehandedly creates Sherlock´s legend and who protects him during danger (and also from himself), but she sees him as a nuisance, because he is not her? That woman is a true narcissist....

(And my personal side-note: It was promised to us by Mofftiss that Mary would not come between Sherlock and John, that the show will continue to be about two friends we know from ACD´s stories... but Mary demands to be a part of the "detective trio" now? A very not good, that...)

Last edited by nakahara (January 6, 2016 4:39 pm)


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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

http://49.media.tumblr.com/eb0e156f55878fcd6f89dcf91ae89811/tumblr_o0eyyzrphE1spvwrzo2_1280.gif
 

January 6, 2016 4:36 pm  #44


Re: The Feminist Aspect

Unless she continues to go a bit free lance!


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January 6, 2016 7:25 pm  #45


Re: The Feminist Aspect

Personally, I think it's important that this is all happening in Sherlock's mind, and tied to the case.  Those details he notices about women's place - Mrs Hudson not speaking and making the tea, Mary being left behind and forgotten, and probably not only references to canon, but clues about the case. 

 

January 9, 2016 10:43 pm  #46


Re: The Feminist Aspect

Some quite interesting theory about why feminism in the Spesh is presented the way it is. I like it.

http://deducingbbcsherlock.tumblr.com/post/136912266354/feminism-and-sherlocks-killer-suffragists


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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

http://49.media.tumblr.com/eb0e156f55878fcd6f89dcf91ae89811/tumblr_o0eyyzrphE1spvwrzo2_1280.gif
 

January 9, 2016 11:42 pm  #47


Re: The Feminist Aspect

Well, I already posted the link, but that is easier than to rehash the entire argument:
https://swanpride.wordpress.com/2016/01/09/is-it-sexist-the-abominable-bride/

 

January 10, 2016 12:04 am  #48


Re: The Feminist Aspect

Swanpride wrote:

Well, I already posted the link, but that is easier than to rehash the entire argument:
https://swanpride.wordpress.com/2016/01/09/is-it-sexist-the-abominable-bride/

 
Kudos, well written. I like your perspective and agree wholeheartly 


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"There is a place for people like you, the desperate, the terrified. The ones with nowhere else to run."
"What place?"
"221B Baker Street."
 

August 1, 2017 11:21 am  #49


Re: The Feminist Aspect

Truly interesting fact about famous and progressive Army surgeon Dr. James Barry (ca.1795-1865) who actually was a woman.

http://www.ed.ac.uk/medicine-vet-medicine/about/history/historic-alumni/james-barry

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/02/books/all-of-the-people-some-of-the-time.html

Note, the biographer's name is Rachel Holmes!

Surely this story was used as a hint to Molly's appearance in the case of Abominable Bride.


__________________________________________________

Men should be what they seem, 
Or those that be not, would they might seem none!

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August 1, 2017 2:43 pm  #50


Re: The Feminist Aspect

Interesting link! Could have had to do with how they included Molly in the special. I have to say I enjoyed the Canadian connection, too.


http://orig11.deviantart.net/078e/f/2015/207/f/e/consulting_detective_2_by_sakuranakamura-d92vt40.pnghttp://orig08.deviantart.net/8f4e/f/2015/198/4/2/blogger_by_sakuranakamura-d91o4zv.png
Clueing for looks.
 

August 1, 2017 3:10 pm  #51


Re: The Feminist Aspect

Very interesting indeed. Thanks for posting and I agree, this might be a story Mofftiss know. 


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

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August 1, 2017 4:26 pm  #52


Re: The Feminist Aspect

@Yitzock

Oh yes, "three- continents- doctor", indeed!  (England, Africa, Canada). 😜


@SusiGo

You're welcome!
It's absolutely fascinating story!

Here some more links about this great person, Margaret Ann Bulkley who named herself James Miranda Stuart Barry to study medicine and become the most progressive  military doctor at his time.



http://www.irishexaminer.com/lifestyle/features/the-anatomy-of-a-lie--the-irish-woman-who-lived-as-a-man-to-practice-medicine-277445.html

http://www.express.co.uk/life-style/life/702153/doctor-remarkable-secret-truth-behind-one-army-top-officers


Also, doctor was a looker ! 😍

http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/130/590x/secondary/barry-629242.jpg

Last edited by DramaQueen (August 1, 2017 4:29 pm)


__________________________________________________

Men should be what they seem, 
Or those that be not, would they might seem none!

http://i66.tinypic.com/v3jd5i.jpg


 
 

August 12, 2017 4:29 pm  #53


Re: The Feminist Aspect

Excuse me for spam perhaps, but I thought, this excerpt from " Lucia di Lammermoor" by Donizetti  could be very suitable for this topic, even similar. (And I love the mad scene with " Il dolce suono" anyway). 💔



__________________________________________________

Men should be what they seem, 
Or those that be not, would they might seem none!

http://i66.tinypic.com/v3jd5i.jpg


 
 

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