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July 4, 2017 3:54 pm  #201


Re: Still unexplained secrets?

Thanks for your post. It was very interesting to read! :-)

So it is not impossible that Eurus only made up Victor the boy. Why would she do that? Just because she can? It makes her look even more cruel.


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I still believe that love conquers all!

     

"Quick, man, if you love me."
 

July 4, 2017 4:31 pm  #202


Re: Still unexplained secrets?

As Victor is canonical, I am certain he is real.
It makes complete sense that young, psychotic Eurus was jealous of him and adult psychotic Eurus sets up John in the same way...


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July 4, 2017 5:44 pm  #203


Re: Still unexplained secrets?

Schmiezi wrote:

Thanks for your post. It was very interesting to read! :-)

So it is not impossible that Eurus only made up Victor the boy. Why would she do that? Just because she can? It makes her look even more cruel.

To me it is more believable that Sherlock made up Eurus, i.e. that she is part of himself. 

As for Victor being Canon - well, he is but there is no similarity whatsoever between Canon Victor and TFP Victor apart from him being Sherlock's friend. From Moran in TEH we know that Mofftiss sometimes use names for a completely different character. And I think that even for Mofftiss it would be unusual (if not bad taste) to have a child murdered without any further reference to this fact. We do not get anything, not even after John found the skull in the well. 


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

July 4, 2017 5:58 pm  #204


Re: Still unexplained secrets?

He was just a plot device.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

July 4, 2017 6:07 pm  #205


Re: Still unexplained secrets?

SusiGo wrote:

Schmiezi wrote:

Thanks for your post. It was very interesting to read! :-)

So it is not impossible that Eurus only made up Victor the boy. Why would she do that? Just because she can? It makes her look even more cruel.

To me it is more believable that Sherlock made up Eurus, i.e. that she is part of himself. 

As for Victor being Canon - well, he is but there is no similarity whatsoever between Canon Victor and TFP Victor apart from him being Sherlock's friend. From Moran in TEH we know that Mofftiss sometimes use names for a completely different character. And I think that even for Mofftiss it would be unusual (if not bad taste) to have a child murdered without any further reference to this fact. We do not get anything, not even after John found the skull in the well. 

I like that idea too. He would basically save himself at the end of TFP.


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I still believe that love conquers all!

     

"Quick, man, if you love me."
 

July 4, 2017 6:08 pm  #206


Re: Still unexplained secrets?

I'm sorry, I've missed something,
Who would save himself?


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

July 4, 2017 6:18 pm  #207


Re: Still unexplained secrets?

By saving Eurus who would be a part of himself Sherlock would save himself from loneliness.


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I still believe that love conquers all!

     

"Quick, man, if you love me."
 

July 4, 2017 6:22 pm  #208


Re: Still unexplained secrets?

Sherlock does save Eurus and thereby saves himself, in a fashion.
But he also saves John and Eurus is the key to that, which fits with her being the key to the disappearance of Victor...both Sherlock's only friends.
This is how it all ties up so neatly.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

July 4, 2017 9:05 pm  #209


Re: Still unexplained secrets?

SusiGo wrote:

Schmiezi wrote:

Thanks for your post. It was very interesting to read! :-)

So it is not impossible that Eurus only made up Victor the boy. Why would she do that? Just because she can? It makes her look even more cruel.

To me it is more believable that Sherlock made up Eurus, i.e. that she is part of himself. 

Let´s not forget that Sherrinford, the facility containing Eurus together with her deadly games, was in Canon the original name for Sherlock himself. The man is that building, so to say.


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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

 

July 4, 2017 9:08 pm  #210


Re: Still unexplained secrets?

I don't see any sense of that.
I was just delighted that Sherlock had the foresight to know how to reach Eurus and cure her.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

July 4, 2017 9:11 pm  #211


Re: Still unexplained secrets?

besleybean wrote:

I don't see any sense of that.

It means that he is Sherrinford and everything taking place there plays itself only in his mind.


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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

 

July 4, 2017 9:14 pm  #212


Re: Still unexplained secrets?

For me the story has to be all real for it to make sense.
We've had these not real theories before, I was never convinced by any of them and so far I've always been vindicated.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

July 4, 2017 9:26 pm  #213


Re: Still unexplained secrets?

besleybean wrote:

For me the story has to be all real for it to make sense.

Does that mean you did not enjoy TAB (a prolonged Sherlock´s hallucination?
 


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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

 

July 4, 2017 9:29 pm  #214


Re: Still unexplained secrets?

I loved it..
We obviously knew that was mind palace, the majority of it being in Victorian costume being the biggest clue.
But Sherlock did execute CAM in HLV.  
For me, all in TFP happened, until we are told otherwise and I can virtually guarantee we won't be.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

July 4, 2017 11:28 pm  #215


Re: Still unexplained secrets?

besleybean wrote:

Sherlock does save Eurus and thereby saves himself, in a fashion.
But he also saves John and Eurus is the key to that, which fits with her being the key to the disappearance of Victor...both Sherlock's only friends.
This is how it all ties up so neatly.

I agree with besleybean on both points--what she said directly above, and what she said in this quote.

Losing a beloved dog, while quite painful for a child, would not have so traumatized Sherlock that he became the so-called sociopathic person we meet in Season One.  Losing his best friend, on the other hand, would have been--and was--a very different story.  If his father really was allergic to dogs, and there is no indication on that episode that Eurus was mistaken about that, then Sherlock would have never been allowed to have one, while growing up.
 

Last edited by kgreen20 (July 4, 2017 11:33 pm)

 

July 5, 2017 3:58 am  #216


Re: Still unexplained secrets?

nakahara wrote:

SusiGo wrote:

Schmiezi wrote:

Thanks for your post. It was very interesting to read! :-)

So it is not impossible that Eurus only made up Victor the boy. Why would she do that? Just because she can? It makes her look even more cruel.

To me it is more believable that Sherlock made up Eurus, i.e. that she is part of himself. 

Let´s not forget that Sherrinford, the facility containing Eurus together with her deadly games, was in Canon the original name for Sherlock himself. The man is that building, so to say.

I would love them to go thete in S5. Thst would be really really clever writing :-)


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I still believe that love conquers all!

     

"Quick, man, if you love me."
 

July 5, 2017 4:09 am  #217


Re: Still unexplained secrets?

How's this for an idea. Victor owned the dog we know as Redbeard, the red Irish Setter of Sherlock's memory. But it's name wasn't Redbeard, that was the name of the pirate Victor liked to pretend to be in their games. The dog would have been named something boring and forgettable. Wherever Victor went, the dog went too (when the kids played outdoors). They were inseparable. Sherlock was envious and wished he had a dog like that, but he wasn't allowed because his dad was allergic to dogs. Maybe something happened to the dog (maybe Eurus did something nasty to it, but nobody knew it was her) and it had to be put down. Then came the tragedy of Victor disappearing... and somehow in Sherlock's mind the two were merged into Redbeard the dog. That's why we see and hear a dog in both Sherlock's and Mycroft's memories/flashbacks. That's why there was a dog bowl (Eurus got hold of it at some point, perhaps as a trophy). Imagine how confusing it all would have been for little Sherlock. Maybe his parents and brother tried to explain, but it was too traumatic and in the end they just let him believe what he thought he remembered.

Anyway, that's one possible explanation. I don't think Moffat and Gatiss are the sorts of writer's who worry about explaining all the details, and getting into discussions in the aftermath of TFP about the police searching for Victor etc. would have seemed unnecessary to them. Perhaps they didn't have this particular scenario in mind, but it works for me
 

Last edited by Meretricious (July 5, 2017 4:18 am)

 

July 5, 2017 6:19 am  #218


Re: Still unexplained secrets?

Sherlock remembers his friend and he names him before Eurus does: I think he really is meant to have existed! 

(Also, I don't think the existence of the dog bowl is ever supposed to be a mystery.  It's established that the room Sherlock is in is fake, and I think the dog bowl is meant to be a fake prop within it). 

Last edited by Liberty (July 5, 2017 6:25 am)

 

July 5, 2017 7:37 am  #219


Re: Still unexplained secrets?

Yep, that was Eurus just messing with him.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

July 5, 2017 1:14 pm  #220


Re: Still unexplained secrets?

Meretricious wrote:

Anyway, that's one possible explanation. I don't think Moffat and Gatiss are the sorts of writer's who worry about explaining all the details, and getting into discussions in the aftermath of TFP about the police searching for Victor etc. would have seemed unnecessary to them. Perhaps they didn't have this particular scenario in mind, but it works for me
 

In Mycroft´s story, it is obvious there were no repercussions for Eurus on behalf of "Drowned Redbeard". She was only isolated in Sherrinford later, after she tried to burn the house and to hurt Sherlock.

Now, maybe the story in which one child drowns another and nobody cares about the fact works for someone, but for me, it is too unbelievable to be considered real....
 


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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

 

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