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January 4, 2014 10:13 pm  #981


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Wholocked wrote:

Mary Me wrote:

But why? I'm perfectly fine with the soluation. 

My issue with the third solution (and it jumped out at me as I was watching it the first time, it was such a huge issue) is that it implies the entire 'faking my death' was to fool John into believing he was dead. That's not why he faked his death. He did it because Moriarty's men needed to believe he was dead in order to stop the three snipers. He stayed 'dead' so that he could unravel the web but he wouldn't have had to 'die' in the way that he did if he just wanted to disappear to take out the web.

The idea that the entire 'production' was purely to fool John is bollocks. Also, if Mycroft's men had eliminated the sniper thread, it wouldn't have been necessary for Sherlock to go through with the faked death after Moriarty died at all

This theory works perfectly well as a 'how I faked my death' if you don't consider the reasons WHY he was faking his death. And that's where the ginormous holes are for me.
 

But this assumes the Watson sniper is the guy who is going to send the Moriarty recall code to the other two snipers.
This particular killing ground would have been one of many  selected by Sherlock/Mycroft during the early stages of the plan. Probably when Moriarty was still being held by Mycroft and Mycroft discovered that Moriartys weakness was Sherlock. I imagine Mycroft (who is after all the British Government and British Secret Service) would have had the site extensively surveyed for vantage points, blind spots, and angles of sight. I would also imagine that Mycroft would have been informed by Sherlock that the roof top location was a go before he invited Moriarty. Thereby giving Mycroft plenty of time to secure the location before any of Moriartys henchmen arrived. It would not take much for Mycrofts men to secure any advantageous  vantage points leaving the guy with the recall code an obstructed view. Once the recall guy was in position Mycroft/Sherlock selected the appropriate plan, which may have had a number of options depending on Moriartys actions. The recall guy saw what Mycroft/Sherlock wanted him to see; and sent the recall code.

As I see it the primary purpose of the operation would have been to convince Moriarty/Moriartys organisation that Sherlock was dead. Saving Watson and the others was not the primary goal.

I see this as a Mycroft operation against the Moriarty web using a willing  Sherlock as bait. Mycroft played Moriarty from the moment he gave away his weakness when being held prior to the Crown Jewels raid.

 

 

January 9, 2014 4:00 pm  #982


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Here's another bullet point for discussion:
Sherlock explained the scene bit by bit as we the viewers saw it at home to Anderson.
Here's the thing Anderson wasn't there, and Watson never blogged about the Fall in detail. I don't think there's an interrogation or witness report where John details how he was knocked down by a cyclist or he tried to take a pulse, he was too much in shock or it was too apparent a suicide to bother.
In Anderson's main theory there is no rubber ball or cyclist because he didn't know about Watson's reaction or interaction at the scene. Other than plain exposition for the viewers' benefit he didn't have to add those last bits of details.
Again the "I've got lots of coats" Sherlock you fibber , no you don't. When Irene "borrowed" the coat the writers had her return it later so that Sherlock wouldn't have to change coats. We first meet Sherlock he's looking for a flatmate to split the rent with, why would he buy several identical expensive coats he couldn't afford or need at the time? and it is obviously expensive he didn't get from Mark's and Spencer. I believe it was a gift from a former client or a past acquaintance which could explain his sentimental attachment to it. Everything Sherlock owns and collect has a meaning or a connection relevant to him, possibly his first official case. This is confirmed by asking Mycroft, who kept it stored, for it when he got back to London as Sherlock Holmes. Is there a thread here discussing "the coat" ? I feel an urge to create one .

 

January 25, 2014 5:54 pm  #983


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

dartmoordoggers wrote:

Wholocked wrote:

Mary Me wrote:

But why? I'm perfectly fine with the soluation. 

My issue with the third solution (and it jumped out at me as I was watching it the first time, it was such a huge issue) is that it implies the entire 'faking my death' was to fool John into believing he was dead. That's not why he faked his death. He did it because Moriarty's men needed to believe he was dead in order to stop the three snipers. He stayed 'dead' so that he could unravel the web but he wouldn't have had to 'die' in the way that he did if he just wanted to disappear to take out the web.

The idea that the entire 'production' was purely to fool John is bollocks. Also, if Mycroft's men had eliminated the sniper thread, it wouldn't have been necessary for Sherlock to go through with the faked death after Moriarty died at all

This theory works perfectly well as a 'how I faked my death' if you don't consider the reasons WHY he was faking his death. And that's where the ginormous holes are for me.
 

But this assumes the Watson sniper is the guy who is going to send the Moriarty recall code to the other two snipers.
This particular killing ground would have been one of many  selected by Sherlock/Mycroft during the early stages of the plan. Probably when Moriarty was still being held by Mycroft and Mycroft discovered that Moriartys weakness was Sherlock. I imagine Mycroft (who is after all the British Government and British Secret Service) would have had the site extensively surveyed for vantage points, blind spots, and angles of sight. I would also imagine that Mycroft would have been informed by Sherlock that the roof top location was a go before he invited Moriarty. Thereby giving Mycroft plenty of time to secure the location before any of Moriartys henchmen arrived. It would not take much for Mycrofts men to secure any advantageous  vantage points leaving the guy with the recall code an obstructed view. Once the recall guy was in position Mycroft/Sherlock selected the appropriate plan, which may have had a number of options depending on Moriartys actions. The recall guy saw what Mycroft/Sherlock wanted him to see; and sent the recall code.

As I see it the primary purpose of the operation would have been to convince Moriarty/Moriartys organisation that Sherlock was dead. Saving Watson and the others was not the primary goal.

I see this as a Mycroft operation against the Moriarty web using a willing  Sherlock as bait. Mycroft played Moriarty from the moment he gave away his weakness when being held prior to the Crown Jewels raid.

 

Well, someone sent the recall code, and it wasn't Moriarty, so it was John's sniper or another of Moriarty's men who could also view the scene. What other possibility is there?

We know that John's sniper didn't have an obstructed site, because we watch his rifle scope zoom in on the ground where Sherlock fell at the end of TRF. If Mycroft arranged to have the rifleman have the same obstructed viewpoint as John (which, again, is controverted by the scope view we see in TRF), that's THE essential piece of information for this explanation to make sense (that and how Sherlock ever planned for Moriarty to not see the trick as well if he hadn't unexpectedly shot himself). Fans making up possible explanations for the show creators after the fact doesn't make theirs a good or reasonable explanation, especially when it relies on so pervasive a control over the area around the hospital as to somehow guide the shooter directly into a given spot. If you have that kind of power, you have the power to just shoot the shooter.

Sherlocks' motivation is to not have the shooters kill his friends (and if he knows about this already, why doesn't he just arrange for them to be protected?). The core, the entire point of this plan is that Sherlock has to know where Moriarty and all of his men will be and what they'll observe. That aspect is never explained, as though Sherlock weren't even concerned, as though all the show creators were concerned with explaining was how Sherlock tricked John and a television audience. 

It's dumb at this point. They don't have an explanation for why they did what they did except that it theoretically created a tense TV moment while we waited for their nonanswer. I hate it when shows pretend to be smart only to serve up something like this.

 

January 26, 2014 3:51 pm  #984


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

haseoke39 wrote:

dartmoordoggers wrote:

Wholocked wrote:

My issue with the third solution (and it jumped out at me as I was watching it the first time, it was such a huge issue) is that it implies the entire 'faking my death' was to fool John into believing he was dead. That's not why he faked his death. He did it because Moriarty's men needed to believe he was dead in order to stop the three snipers. He stayed 'dead' so that he could unravel the web but he wouldn't have had to 'die' in the way that he did if he just wanted to disappear to take out the web.

The idea that the entire 'production' was purely to fool John is bollocks. Also, if Mycroft's men had eliminated the sniper thread, it wouldn't have been necessary for Sherlock to go through with the faked death after Moriarty died at all

This theory works perfectly well as a 'how I faked my death' if you don't consider the reasons WHY he was faking his death. And that's where the ginormous holes are for me.
 

But this assumes the Watson sniper is the guy who is going to send the Moriarty recall code to the other two snipers.
This particular killing ground would have been one of many  selected by Sherlock/Mycroft during the early stages of the plan. Probably when Moriarty was still being held by Mycroft and Mycroft discovered that Moriartys weakness was Sherlock. I imagine Mycroft (who is after all the British Government and British Secret Service) would have had the site extensively surveyed for vantage points, blind spots, and angles of sight. I would also imagine that Mycroft would have been informed by Sherlock that the roof top location was a go before he invited Moriarty. Thereby giving Mycroft plenty of time to secure the location before any of Moriartys henchmen arrived. It would not take much for Mycrofts men to secure any advantageous  vantage points leaving the guy with the recall code an obstructed view. Once the recall guy was in position Mycroft/Sherlock selected the appropriate plan, which may have had a number of options depending on Moriartys actions. The recall guy saw what Mycroft/Sherlock wanted him to see; and sent the recall code.

As I see it the primary purpose of the operation would have been to convince Moriarty/Moriartys organisation that Sherlock was dead. Saving Watson and the others was not the primary goal.

I see this as a Mycroft operation against the Moriarty web using a willing  Sherlock as bait. Mycroft played Moriarty from the moment he gave away his weakness when being held prior to the Crown Jewels raid.

 

Well, someone sent the recall code, and it wasn't Moriarty, so it was John's sniper or another of Moriarty's men who could also view the scene. What other possibility is there?

We know that John's sniper didn't have an obstructed site, because we watch his rifle scope zoom in on the ground where Sherlock fell at the end of TRF. If Mycroft arranged to have the rifleman have the same obstructed viewpoint as John (which, again, is controverted by the scope view we see in TRF), that's THE essential piece of information for this explanation to make sense (that and how Sherlock ever planned for Moriarty to not see the trick as well if he hadn't unexpectedly shot himself). Fans making up possible explanations for the show creators after the fact doesn't make theirs a good or reasonable explanation, especially when it relies on so pervasive a control over the area around the hospital as to somehow guide the shooter directly into a given spot. If you have that kind of power, you have the power to just shoot the shooter.

Sherlocks' motivation is to not have the shooters kill his friends (and if he knows about this already, why doesn't he just arrange for them to be protected?). The core, the entire point of this plan is that Sherlock has to know where Moriarty and all of his men will be and what they'll observe. That aspect is never explained, as though Sherlock weren't even concerned, as though all the show creators were concerned with explaining was how Sherlock tricked John and a television audience. 

It's dumb at this point. They don't have an explanation for why they did what they did except that it theoretically created a tense TV moment while we waited for their nonanswer. I hate it when shows pretend to be smart only to serve up something like this.

 
No, we don't see the sniper scope on the ground where Sherlock fell; the whole scene between John and Sherlock is just them. We see a sniper scope on John Watson's head at the very end when Sherlock's body has already been taken away but it's part of a panning shot as the rifle comes up with the guy preparing to dismantle it.

We don't  know whether that is Moriarty's man or Mycroft's man; on balance it is more likely to be Mycroft's because no sane assassin hangs around when there are large numbers of people and the police are undoubtedly on their way. But in any event Moriarty is dead and Sherlock is almost certainly facing a murder charge for his death; Sherlock has to stay 'dead' to avoid that charge and get on with tracking down his network; as I have noted elsewhere it is difficult to do that when you are in the dock at the Old Bailey on trial for murder...

 

January 26, 2014 4:22 pm  #985


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

You have to admit, the fake explanations with Molly and Moriarty were rather fun ^^


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Dean - "I'm not happy about it. But I got to move on. So I'm gonna keep doing what we do...while I still can. And I'd like you to be there with me."

Sam - "I'm your brother, Dean, if you ever need to talk about anything with anybody, you got someone right here next to you."


http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/79/a8/0c/79a80c5d40432048588a53434ac086a1.jpg
 

January 26, 2014 4:35 pm  #986


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Brilliant.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

February 21, 2014 3:50 pm  #987


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

We have got an elephant in the room, haven't we. We might as well have a pink unicorn in series 4.
What about the Theory of Intelligent Falling according to which the theory of gravity is false and there is a deity that causes that things to fall down. (sarcasm http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/wink.png
) If Sherlock is on the side of the angels everything is apparently possible. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/tongue.png

http://www.theonion.com/articles/evangelical-scientists-refute-gravity-with-new-int,1778/?ref=auto

 

 

February 21, 2014 5:45 pm  #988


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Oh my giddy aunt.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

March 17, 2014 2:08 am  #989


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

my theory is that after sherlock jumped, he did land, but he hit not concreet, but a matress or something that was on the ground. there was a reason for the truck being in front of where he landed, so her could get up and put a body identical to his on the sidewalk. the biker that knocked john down was a distraction so they could prepare the other body and the people surounding it were sherlock's homless network and prevented john from looking too close to the body. the truck that moved away was where sherlock was  hiding when  it moved away, also holding the thing that he landed on. even though i know he is alive and i think i know how it was done, i still cry every time i see him jump.

 

March 17, 2014 6:59 am  #990


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Mark did a Q&A in Rio the other day and is still teasing about the Anderson theory being the right one...
I only ever cried for John's sake.
But now I've seen him hit Sherlock, I don't think I'll cry any more.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

February 8, 2015 10:04 pm  #991


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

I loved Anderson's theory the most. At first I went, what?! That's what happened?! And then... Yeah. I would've been fine with that actually happening!


~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~

Moriarty: "Is that a British Army L9A1 in your pocket or are you just pleased to see me?"
Sherlock: "Oh Jim, it's obviously a Sig Sauer P226R, also assigned by the British Army to soldiers serving in Afghanistan. No science of deduction needed."

http://i.imgur.com/8VJpUnU.gif?1
 

January 29, 2017 3:52 am  #992


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

 
 
This thing won’t solve itself.
The Sherlock Holmes story needs to go on as it should and it won’t until somebody sets up their claim and solves it to prove that they are the Sherlock. I’m doing it now.
Everything after TRF is fake because the story stopped after the fall and Sherlock never was resurrected without a fall solution about how he did it to bring him back and somebody to outright step onto the stage.
 
These seemingly unconnected puzzle pieces belong together:
He fell into the laundry lorry, but the angle was wrong. Solution: Change the angle. The angle changes to save him. It can tip and turn.
It’s a skip.
The obliquity of the ecliptic. It’s a changing angle.
The rising bed in the field in Scandal. Turning a lever.  The circling guy seen from above dead on the grounds with a blow to his head. The whole dream story with Irene in the field is a version of the fall solution.
The tipping staircase in 221 B during the stag night.
The fall in CAM tower. Falling backwards. They showed us the mechanics behind the scenes. Turning a lever.
The tyre lever.
The skip is effectively a bin lorry that can change it’s angle to tip the rubbish off. Mrs Hudson carrying rubbish around.
He fell right on my bins. Planned and rehearsed with the MOD man in Scandal. The MOD man standing right next to the staircase to board the plane. The staircase is placed on a car.
The car in ASiB with it’s bonnet turned upwards.
The skip in front of the drug den. The skip in TBB in the back alley where the staircase is pulled downwards by Sherlock and John is standing there and watching from downstairs.
John raising his finger slowly upwards at Sherlock in 221 B during the stag night.
Everything is tipping and turning. Diagonals and circles everywhere.
In Series 4 the whole 221 B tipped and Sherlock fell on the couch.
 
 
 


==========================================================================
Sometimes a deception is so audacious, so outrageous that you can't see it even if is is staring you in the face.

No mask like open truth to cover lies
as to go naked is the best disguise.
-William Congreve

It's a skip--code.
 

January 29, 2017 7:18 am  #993


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

I think it is really interesting that tipping and turning is used so often.

Can you explain what you mean when you say everything after TRF is fake? Do you mean like a dream or MP or halucination?

Last edited by Schmiezi (January 29, 2017 7:19 am)


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I still believe that love conquers all!

http://i1353.photobucket.com/albums/q666/Schmiezi/f78f2088-06ef-444c-b254-d9efa841bc19_zps435390b3.png      http://i1353.photobucket.com/albums/q666/Schmiezi/140545df-e987-4a67-9272-fa8b2742790c_zpsa8b00ed8.png

"Quick, man, if you love me."
 

January 29, 2017 8:26 am  #994


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Yes and really, why would you say that?


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

January 29, 2017 12:31 pm  #995


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Fake as it being another kind of reality that clearly stood miles away from logic (people have pointed out many mistakes; only that they are deliberate hints); like an inner journey, a combination of Sherlock's experiences after the fall struggling to come back and John's way to realize what he feels for Sherlock. There could never be a true fall solution because John didn't know it and couldn't work it out and Sherlock hasn't told him. He tried telling John in TEH as much as I tried at some point of time but couldn't because nobody was prepared to listen and I was also not prepared to tell my story. It endet with a beating up, an aborted explanation and John had decided to move on.
I interpret it so that as long as Sherlock didn't come back John was also not awake. Sherlock said it: What life? I've been away.  They can only be together or not exist at all. Sherlock lives, John lives.

My coming back/out was mostly Mcroft's doing but you can also say that John just blamed Mycroft for Sherlock's death because he felt guilty for not rescuing Sherlock in time.
Series 3 and 4 mirror John's and Sherlock's point of view in story as much as it's a mirror of some real life experiences on another level.

After TRF there are some overlapping layers of storytelling.


==========================================================================
Sometimes a deception is so audacious, so outrageous that you can't see it even if is is staring you in the face.

No mask like open truth to cover lies
as to go naked is the best disguise.
-William Congreve

It's a skip--code.
 

January 29, 2017 1:13 pm  #996


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Beginning with series 3 Sherlock managed to provide not only a simple plot of two men solving cases but by shifting the angle and writing in several layers there is suddenly a deeper meaning about value your life, deal with what you are given, accept who you are, don't try to be a hero or a saint all the time, be yourself, don't try to live up to peoples expectations, forgive yourself and others. Don't sit in a cave, try to see the light, don't build a prison of your own making where nobody can touch you.

In a way Sherlock changed profoundly. You can try to work with these images and by changing layers and perspectives you can help yourself to connect with the other one.


==========================================================================
Sometimes a deception is so audacious, so outrageous that you can't see it even if is is staring you in the face.

No mask like open truth to cover lies
as to go naked is the best disguise.
-William Congreve

It's a skip--code.
 

January 29, 2017 1:19 pm  #997


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

I think that's a good analysis.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

January 29, 2017 9:55 pm  #998


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Yes, I agree. I love the elegance and (often) lighter mood of S1 and 2, but IMO S3, TAB, and S4 have more depth. 
 


------------------------------
"Love conquers all." (Benedict Cumberbatch about Sherlock)

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

 
 

January 30, 2017 8:30 am  #999


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Sherlock is a three dimensional character now;  though the pieces and pattern were there all along. Planted for us to find.

The skull painting is the perfect metaphor. It was already a piece of art but now it has more subtext, it's a bit odd and it can glow.


==========================================================================
Sometimes a deception is so audacious, so outrageous that you can't see it even if is is staring you in the face.

No mask like open truth to cover lies
as to go naked is the best disguise.
-William Congreve

It's a skip--code.
 

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