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September 19, 2016 5:14 pm  #6961


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

But in real life, men do notice the way other men look and have opinions on it ... maybe some more than others.  And his cheekbones are very noticeable and part of his look!  (I wouldn't find it "telling" if my boyfriend commented on them).

I don't think he had a good view of his arse through his coat, or yes, that might have been mentioned! 

 

September 19, 2016 6:28 pm  #6962


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Well, John will know what Sherlock's arse looks like at least since ASiB. 

 


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

September 19, 2016 6:37 pm  #6963


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

And a season or so later, still seems remarkably disinterested in it.


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September 19, 2016 6:54 pm  #6964


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

You have done a great job with these, Liberty - kudos!


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September 20, 2016 9:14 am  #6965


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Thanks, Vhanja!  And as I mentioned before, these are just my personal opinions on what these scenes are about.  I'm sure other people will have different opinions, and I do think it's very difficult to be certain.   So I'm looking at these scenes as part of a whole.

I think with John's comment (above) it's about seeing it in context, as well.   Does John act as if he's flirting and has been rebuffed?  Does Sherlock act as if he intereprets it that way?  Personally, I don't think so.

 

September 30, 2016 7:02 am  #6966


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

A few more of those questions ...

• Why did Sherlock and John stare at each other in the mirror while getting ready for the trail
?
I wouldn’t call it staring.  It lasts about 2 seconds and is when both of them are getting ready to face Moriarty, Sherlock’s nemesis, somebody who has threatened both their lives.  They also are going to have to face the public.  I think the look and the little bit in the hallway shows that they’re in it together (which makes the ending all the more sad).


• Why did Sherlock say 'you repel me’ with such poison after Kitty Reilly said that there’s 'all sorts of gossip in the press’ about him and that she can 'settle the record straight’?
He knows what she’s up to, that she’s not on their side.   And he’s aware of the dangers of the press (although he’s actually exploiting it a little in this episode too), and of how it can be used (Magnussen also repels him).
 

• Why does Molly say to Sherlock 'you look sad, when you think he can’t see you’?
Molly apparently doesn’t matter at that point, so Sherlock is less careful about showing his emotions in front of her.  He knows he’s going to have to do something terrible and (temporarily) lose John and the rest of his life.   Molly picks up on that, although she doesn’t know why.


• Why did Sherlock only lose his shit when he thought that John was starting to doubt him?
John has been his rock, who has absolute faith in Sherlock despite evidence to the contrary.   Actually, I think this moment is very moving - Sherlock wants John to continue to have faith in him, but is setting up a situation designed to deceive John and make him lose faith.   

• Why did John chin the chief superintendent for calling Sherlock a weirdo?
He felt protective of Sherlock.

• Why did John trust Sherlock with holding a loaded gun to his head?
Again, he has complete faith in him.  And at this point, Sherlock is letting him off the hook, by making it look as if Sherlock is abducting him as a hostage, rather than that he’s a willing accomplice, so John is actually relieved!
 

• Why was John’s first thought 'people will definitely talk’ after Sherlock held his hand and they ran together down the street?
It’s a joke in a tense situation, a bit like the one at the pool.

 

September 30, 2016 4:13 pm  #6967


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Yes, gallows humour.


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September 30, 2016 5:08 pm  #6968


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Yes, John actually deals very well with that sort of situation.  One of the things Sherlock admires about him, I'm sure!

 

October 4, 2016 7:07 pm  #6969


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

• Why was Sherlock’s first thought 'John’ when Moriarty said that the people he cares about will die?
John is the person he is closest to.  Moriarty actually says “your friends will die if you don’t”, so it seems obvious to me that the first person he mentions is his best friend.  I also think he is checking to make sure he has the right people.  Moriarty says that it’s “everyone” until Sherlock has named John, Mrs Hudson and Lestrade, and then Moriarty admits that there are three targets.   

• Why did Sherlock cry on the roof?
He wants to make it look like a suicide, but I think he’s also drawing on genuine emotion which has been building up throughout the episode.  

• Why was Sherlock’s 'last’ words 'goodbye, John’?
I don’t understand this question - what else would he say?  He is trying to make it look like a suicide.  And, of course, he's actually genuinely saying goodbye to John - he won't see him for a long, long time.

• Why did John look so heartbroken?
Again, I don’t understand.  Sherlock kills himself in front of him.  He looks heartbroken because he IS heartbroken, surely? 

• Why did John’s therapist say 'the things you meant to say… But never did. Say them now’?
She’s talking about John expressing his feelings for Sherlock, I think.  The things he didn’t say when Sherlock was alive.   

• Why did John refuse?
I don’t know, but I don’t think he feels able to say them to another person.  He needs to be alone, talking to Sherlock’s grave.

• What were the things he never said?
What he says at the grave, more or less. 

• Why did John say at Sherlock’s grave 'one more miracle, Sherlock, for me. Don’t… Be… Dead’?
There’s a glimmer of wild hope that Sherlock really did pull off an amazing trick - he so much wants him to be alive.  

• Why did John mourn Sherlock more like a lover than a friend?
I don’t think he does.  Sherlock was never his lover.  He was a friend whom he loved deeply, who saved him, who meant the world to him.

 

October 5, 2016 5:56 pm  #6970


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

We're on Series 3 now, so getting there!  Sorry to do two posts in a row again, but there's not much action here so I thought I'd go ahead .

• Why were the S*erl0lololo and S***i4rty ship fan theories dismissed as 'bollocks’ when Johnlock, the main ship in fandom, wasn’t mentioned?
Both of those were in the fall scenarios, whereas Johnlock wasn’t.    (And in fact, both Molly and Moriarty were involved in the fall, whereas John wasn’t).  

• Why did Sherlock look so happy to be returning to London?
Because he was?  He’d had two years away, some of it probably hellish, separated from John and everybody else he knew, after leaving London disgraced (and supposedly dead).   

• Why did Mrs Hudson assume that John was about to tell her he was ill when he was actually about to inform her of his engagement to 'Mary’?
Because he looks grim, coming back to 221B, and says he has news.  She has not seen him for ages, so doesn’t know he’s been seeing Mary and assumes it’s bad news (which  it may well be!).  

• Why did John say that he was 'moving on’ from Sherlock?
Because Sherlock had been the focus of his life for years, and now he believed he was dead.   He had had to grieve before he could move on.  

• Why did Mrs Hudson assume that he was engaged to a man?
It’s the running joke, but she has no evidence for it.  Una Stubbs said that she tries to believe it because she wants to keep them close.  

• Why did Mrs Hudson think that Sherlock was John’s boyfriend after years of knowing them both very well?
See above.  She doesn’t really believe it (see her talking to John about Sherlock’s romantic history in ASIB) 

• Why did Sherlock keep asking about John while Mycroft gave him important information about the terrorists?
That’s what he was really interested in.  He wanted to walk back into his life.

 

October 9, 2016 8:42 am  #6971


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Why did Sherlock suggest that he jump out of a cake (which is an action which is usually sexualised)?
He thought it would be fun to surprise John in an amusing way, and thought John would be delighted.  It doesn’t really dawn on him how much pain John must have gone through.  He’s clearly not going to do anything sexual! (And, in fact, he doesn’t!)

• Why did Sherlock interrupt John’s proposal to 'Mary’?
He’s self-centred and oblivious.  He approaches John in his disguise (a reference to canon), and it doesn’t even seem to dawn on him that John isn’t dining alone.  As far as Sherlock was concerned, he could just pick up where he left off with John, I think.

• Why did John not whisper when proposing to 'Mary’, like he normally does when he is emotional?
He’s a little bit awkward and nervous about asking the question. And these are not words said in the heat of the moment, but a planned proposal.  

• Why did John say 'one word, that’s all I would have needed. One word to let me know that you were alive’?
He is angry that Sherlock apparently let him suffer for two years.

• What did he need the one word for?
If he’d known Sherlock was alive he’d have missed him, but wouldn’t have grieved in the same way.

• Why did Sherlock say 'you have missed this… Admit it… just the two of us against the rest of the world’ right in front of 'Mary’?
Because it’s true - Sherlock hits on a key point of their relationship and John’s attraction to him.   It’s not a secret from Mary.  John has missed it, and craves it.  

• Why did Sherlock look so hurt as he watched John and 'Mary’ drive away?
Because he’d hoped for a happy reconciliation, and instead found an angry John who let him know how deeply he’d been hurt.

 

October 9, 2016 9:44 am  #6972


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Very good answers again, Liberty!


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"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings


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October 9, 2016 10:38 am  #6973


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Thanks!  I'm still a bit confused with the questions, as I don't always see the Johnlock reference.  I don't really think any of the above have anything to do with Johnlock.   For instance, I don't think Sherlock knows that John is going to propose so tries to stop that happening so that he can be in a romantic relationship with John.  

 

October 9, 2016 10:57 am  #6974


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Liberty, I'm in awe. Your patience seems to be infinite.

 

October 9, 2016 11:07 am  #6975


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Yeah, me neither. From some of these questions, I get the impression that Sherlock and John can't show any kind of regard or warmth towards each other unless it's romantic.


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"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings


Team Hudders!
 
 

October 9, 2016 11:36 am  #6976


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

I am sorry if I am speaking out of turn: but for me this is always the case with loaded questions, that start from a premise and have an agenda.


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October 9, 2016 3:35 pm  #6977


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Who came up with these questions that Liberty is doing so well answering? They're definitely loaded questions on the Johnlock side. I'm sure you could think of some equally loaded non-Johnlock questions if you were arguing for the other side...or questions for any other ship.

To paraphrase the master, people twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.


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October 9, 2016 3:43 pm  #6978


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Someone originally posted the list on tumblr asking if Johnlock is not real the why...........................


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October 9, 2016 3:43 pm  #6979


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

As ever, Mr Holmes is always right!


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October 9, 2016 3:51 pm  #6980


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

I would love to see the loaded questions that are aiming at "friendship" only. Anyone willing to make a list? I'd volunteer to answer them. ;-)


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