You are both right. That makes me feel better. :-)

True! It's a wonderful scene in that respect. I love it.

A few more questions.  They seem to be asked in order, so the girlfriend here is John's girlfriend in ASIB (I've forgotten her name too!).

• Why was she dressed like Sherlock?
I don’t know if she deliberately dressed like Sherlock. If she did, it was possibly to try to get John's attention (because Sherlock always comes first).

• Why can’t John tell his girlfriends apart?
The are not his focus at this point.  

• Why did John say that Sherlock acts heartbroken all the time?
He can’t tell if he’s grieving for Irene or not.   It looks like it, but what he’s doing could be just his normal behaviour.  (I have my own theory about this - that Sherlock never actually believes Irene is dead - but no room for that here!)

• Why did John get so angry at Irene when she came back?
Because he thought she might have hurt and deceived Sherlock. 

• Why did he shout 'you’ve texted him a lot!’?
I get the feeling in ASIB that John is quite protective of Sherlock, and at this point he feels Irene has kept the contact going then hurt him by pretending to be dead (a bit of a foreshadowing of what’s to come for John!).    Meanwhile, Sherlock very much shuts John out throughout ASIB.  He’s continually kept in the dark, right up to the end. 

• Why did he say 'you… Flirted… With Sherlock Holmes?’ in that tone of voice?
The idea of flirting with Sherlock Holmes is kind of ridiculous 

• Why did Irene ask if he’s jealous?
Because he might be.   

• Why did Irene (who knows what people like) say that they are a couple?
Because they are a couple in a way.  (We know they’re not in a sexual way, but being so close, living together, focusing on each other - they are a sort of couple). I don’t think Irene actually believes they are boyfriends.

• Why did John not deny this?
It makes him think.  There is some truth in it.  His bond with Sherlock is unusual.

Just a quick general comment here - I love what this episode shows us about their relationship.  But I think more than any other, there's a distant Sherlock who kind of shuts John out a lot of the time, but still wants his attention focused on him, and a quietly devoted John, who finds that his relationship with that distant and mysterious Sherlock means other parts of his life being neglected (particularly girlfriends!) with very little reciprocation.   It isn't alway like this, but I think it helps to show why Sherlock can always, absolutely rely on John. 
 

Amazing job with these, Liberty. I agree with all your points. 

And, yes, if there was ever a moment in the show that could be interpreted as Johnlock, it's the dialogue between Irene and John. That is still the one thing I struggle to wrap my head around, trying to read it in a non-Jonlock context.

However, one of those moments isn't enough for me against all the evidence speaking of non-Johnlock, unfortunately (the WoG being the biggest one, of course).

WoG = Word of God aka The Creators.

Thank you!  It's interesting answering them all.  And I'm not claiming my answers are the "truth" - it's just the way I see it.  Some of them I don't really know the answers to. 

It's funny how people see it differently.  I've often seen that point about Sherlock asking for John when he wakes after being drugged, while it's completely missed that all he wants John for is to help him find Irene.  Or the one above about Sherlock glancing at John during his deduction "scene", missing that he has a long, lingering look at Irene.  So I find that some of those points/questions, if they're meant to show Johnlock are a bit selective.  And there are a few I'm just completely stuck with, like John asking about the client in the bedroom: I just can't see a Johnlock interpretation of that at all! 

But I know it's difficult.  Some of the "evidence" either way is through expressions and so on, which are actually quite hard to interpret, I think.   I do feel that the way Molly (who fancies him) looks at Sherlock is quite different to the way John (who I think loves and adores him, but doesn't fancy him!) looks at him.   But I'm not sure how you show that. 

Yes, we have the Word of God.   But I do understand that some people are seeing something else there, that's at odds with what the creators are saying.  So it's still interesting to discuss, I think. 

@ Liberty. But for me, your last sentence is the crux of the issue.
Well to be fair, your post adeptly highlights the main issues!
We are all watching the same show, yet interpreting different things.
For me, the artist has the final say on their work.
But apparently some people think they lie.

@Vhanja.  See I don't agree with the team about Irene and Sherlock.
But I have to admit, they do show it.

For me I see the same with John and Mary and vice versa...I await to be proven wrong in S4.

Last edited by besleybean (September 3, 2016 5:50 pm)

Is it nuance, though?
People have the right to see what they like...but possibly saying that is what is meant to be shown, is something different.

I wonder how we know when they are telling the truth?

Vhanja wrote:

Schmiezi wrote:

Btw, some people think the creators lie sometimes because the creators often say that they lie sometimes.

:-)

I agree, they do.

But some people think that on some topics, they are more sincere than on others. :-)

That's why this debate is still interesting. With unreliable statements there is still room to interpret.