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June 9, 2016 7:59 am  #21


Re: The Tie Conundrum, and why S4 can't be trusted (Meta, Theory, SPOILER)

SusiGo wrote:

Lovely is the fandom that can laugh about themselves (and the writers):

http://the-seventh-stranger.tumblr.com/post/145643968745/enjoytheelephant-gatiss-have-you-seen-extended

I've just read it :D
What's a houseplant?


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"The posh boy loves the dominatrix." Context matters.
 

June 9, 2016 8:08 am  #22


Re: The Tie Conundrum, and why S4 can't be trusted (Meta, Theory, SPOILER)

When Sherlock is falling backwards after being shot, you can see a potted plant sliding in the background to make it seem as if the whole room was tilting and not just Sherlock. I think potted plant is the correct word. 

Of course this is not evidence used for MP theories. It is just a nice visual trick. 

Last edited by SusiGo (June 9, 2016 8:08 am)


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

June 9, 2016 8:17 am  #23


Re: The Tie Conundrum, and why S4 can't be trusted (Meta, Theory, SPOILER)

SusiGo wrote:

When Sherlock is falling backwards after being shot, you can see a potted plant sliding in the background to make it seem as if the whole room was tilting and not just Sherlock. I think potted plant is the correct word. 

Of course this is not evidence used for MP theories. It is just a nice visual trick. 

Oh, thanks for the explanation! I remember they said something about pulling it with a fishing line. But how would the innocent plant fit into the MP theory? O.o


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"The posh boy loves the dominatrix." Context matters.
 

June 9, 2016 8:38 am  #24


Re: The Tie Conundrum, and why S4 can't be trusted (Meta, Theory, SPOILER)

As I said, it is not mentioned in any EMP metas. It was just used as a joke in the post I linked. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

June 9, 2016 8:56 am  #25


Re: The Tie Conundrum, and why S4 can't be trusted (Meta, Theory, SPOILER)

Phew, ok.
*needs to take a closer look at that plant just in case, tho*


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"The posh boy loves the dominatrix." Context matters.
 

June 9, 2016 6:29 pm  #26


Re: The Tie Conundrum, and why S4 can't be trusted (Meta, Theory, SPOILER)

SusiGo wrote:

For the sake of completeness - here is my post in which I coined the term. It is not my idea alone and it is not written in stone. Discussion is fine but one should know what we are talking about:

http://gosherlocked.tumblr.com/post/137622767856/emp-theory-or-the-extended-mind-palace-theory

There are also other interesting metas on this - everything based on observations from the show. 
For example there is one idea that lets the MP start only after the 221B scene, so Leinster Gardens would be real. As I said, this is up for serious discussion. If you have other explanations for the things people observed - just let them come. I would love to read them. 

Very interesting.  I'll give a couple of other explanations a go!

Sherlock shooting Magnussen - Moftiss do explain that they think this is canon.   The story of an unknown assailant happening to appear and disappear while they were there seems a bit ridiculous, and it seems John covers for Sherlock (or both of them) when writing the story.   Not everyone would agree, and yes, they could be lying, but they have given an explanation as to why it's canon-compliant.

Mycroft not reacting to Sherlock being shot - I do wonder if there's a plot point yet to come there. 

Magnussen's mind palace being so similar to Sherlock's - it's possible that this is just the team's vision of what a mind palace is (actually Sherlock's mind palace scenes are a little different to each other - TAB in particular).   And kind of ironic that Sherlock gets out by his own technique. 

The restaurant scene is odd, I agree.   But it does tie in to the story.   There's a big clue that Sherlock missed - if Magnussen wasn't relying on the glasses, then he was purely using his mind/memory.  Sherlock didn't take the extra step to realising that was all he needed. 

Half the British government knowing about the other one - I'm not sure if this was meant to be hyperbole, or serious, or if I missed something?  We do see a small section knowing about the other one - the section who are involved in knowing about secret affairs?  We don't know that other sections of government, education, etc. are aware?  Or did I miss something (I often do!).  Also at this point, I think, we don't know who the other one is or what their fate was and whether any of that is classified or public information. 
 

 

June 9, 2016 6:32 pm  #27


Re: The Tie Conundrum, and why S4 can't be trusted (Meta, Theory, SPOILER)

The team seem to be really trying to play down 'The Other One'.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

June 9, 2016 9:00 pm  #28


Re: The Tie Conundrum, and why S4 can't be trusted (Meta, Theory, SPOILER)

Ahm... well... it's not only the tie. It's also the scarf and the plane interior. And I had a quite interesting exchange with two of the makers on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/drmuig/status/699295348406276096
Not that it answers anything, but the strong reaction did surprised me a tiny little bit

As someone wrote: we have only two possibilities: it is Sherlock's MP, or it's not.
IMO an argument for the MP theory is also the way Mary behaves. She's like the Victorian Mary - so much smarter than all, breaking into M6 database with a smartphone within seconds. And Mycroft so surprisingly caring.

I don't know what it means. But yes, I think the story in S4 might re-start in some surprising moment.

I think I've heard the plant was just the gag to mess with our minds. They just like to do this: have you noticed that when the boys discuss the missing train car at 221B in TEH, some of the shots actually seem to be made from INSIDE of the laptop? Does this mean anything? Sherlock seems to be a show run by nuts and for nuts...

It's so hard to divide between intentional changes and restrictions of film making. Like: is it ever possible to build an EXACT model of the plane interior - and this in reasonable time and for a reasonable price? I would say, it is, but I am not Arwel and have only vague idea of how his job looks like.

PS: I don't see Sherlock's MP as similar to CAM's. CAM has an information storage system, which Mind Palaces or similar techniques are made for. Sherlock has a whole damn world in his head and TAB is more like a shaman drug induced trance than just retrieving data.

Last edited by JP (June 9, 2016 9:02 pm)

 

June 9, 2016 9:12 pm  #29


Re: The Tie Conundrum, and why S4 can't be trusted (Meta, Theory, SPOILER)

Oh, this is very interesting. The idea alone that the plane might NOT be real, stated by the director himself, is quite telling. Because you did not mention it yourself, did you?


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

June 9, 2016 9:49 pm  #30


Re: The Tie Conundrum, and why S4 can't be trusted (Meta, Theory, SPOILER)

No, I was surprised by the response. I was trying to provoke Arwel by calling him sloppy, but without revealing my hidden agenda. The reaction looks like I have stirred something...

 

June 10, 2016 4:20 am  #31


Re: The Tie Conundrum, and why S4 can't be trusted (Meta, Theory, SPOILER)

besleybean wrote:

Again maybe I'm missing something cos I'm a bit behind...
So why would Sherlock have been sent to Exile if not for murder?
Was he just being sent on the mission then?
Why have the pretend scene of shooting CAM?

EMP consideres everything that happened after a certain point to take place inside the mind palace. That would mean the whole ending of HLV and all of TAB. Being sent to exile only happens insinde the mind palace as well as the shooting and the overdose, if I get the theory right.

As for why they have to show the shooting CAM scene ... good question. I like to think that in his mind, Sherlock plays out what would happen if he (and John) forgave Mary shooting Sherlock. Looking at the consequences, I could understand if hewould not act the same way again after waking up.


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I still believe that love conquers all!

     

"Quick, man, if you love me."
 

June 10, 2016 5:36 am  #32


Re: The Tie Conundrum, and why S4 can't be trusted (Meta, Theory, SPOILER)

Thanks for trying...
Maybe it's just me.
I find all of this bizarre and don't quite see the point of any of it.
But of course, it may all become clear next series.
At the moment, I'm tending to feel it's the product of someone's over active imagination, with too much time on their hands between series.
The alternative of course, is that they are a genius!
Time will tell.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

June 10, 2016 5:41 am  #33


Re: The Tie Conundrum, and why S4 can't be trusted (Meta, Theory, SPOILER)

Wow, that did sound a bit insulting. ..


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I still believe that love conquers all!

     

"Quick, man, if you love me."
 

June 10, 2016 5:52 am  #34


Re: The Tie Conundrum, and why S4 can't be trusted (Meta, Theory, SPOILER)

Oh I'm sorry, I honestly didn't mean it to.
It is much more likely to be just me being totally thick...it does happen.
Just one point, how is calling somebody a genius ever insulting?!


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

June 10, 2016 6:24 am  #35


Re: The Tie Conundrum, and why S4 can't be trusted (Meta, Theory, SPOILER)

besleybean wrote:

At the moment, I'm tending to feel it's the product of someone's over active imagination, with too much time on their hands between series.

That's the part I meant. Actually, I think that coming up with a theory like that is pretty genius in itself, no matter if it turn out to be right or wrong.

I love it when people are able to think like that.


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I still believe that love conquers all!

     

"Quick, man, if you love me."
 

June 10, 2016 6:27 am  #36


Re: The Tie Conundrum, and why S4 can't be trusted (Meta, Theory, SPOILER)

So do I and regardless of it's rightness for BBC Sherlock....would be one of the best fan fics ever.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

June 10, 2016 6:34 am  #37


Re: The Tie Conundrum, and why S4 can't be trusted (Meta, Theory, SPOILER)

besleybean wrote:

So do I and regardless of it's rightness for BBC Sherlock....would be one of the best fan fics ever.

I agree, and I am THAT close to writing it.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I still believe that love conquers all!

     

"Quick, man, if you love me."
 

June 10, 2016 6:45 am  #38


Re: The Tie Conundrum, and why S4 can't be trusted (Meta, Theory, SPOILER)

Can we please appreciate JP's post for a moment? The director of TAB himself has brought up the idea that scenes most people deem to be real could be indeed not real either, making the whole episode take place in Sherlock's mind? This is quite a big thing. I am excited because the first plane felt completely odd to me. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

June 10, 2016 7:13 am  #39


Re: The Tie Conundrum, and why S4 can't be trusted (Meta, Theory, SPOILER)

Thank you for explaining that.
That does indeed then make it all rather exciting.
But were those comments exclusive to TAB and not therefore HLV?


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

June 10, 2016 7:17 am  #40


Re: The Tie Conundrum, and why S4 can't be trusted (Meta, Theory, SPOILER)

Yes, they were about TAB. Which shows that scenes (the first and last plane scene) that most people have so far regarded as real might be not. As is the laptop scene in TSoT which most people regarded as real and wondered about as well. 
Therefore I think that parts of HLV might be not real either. I might be wrong which is fine, but TSoT and TAB show that this is something the creators like to do. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

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