I think it is unforgiveable for us, partly because of our attachment to Sherlock, and partly because we're not given enough "good" Mary to offset it. 

Sherlock seems to forgive as soon as he works out the reason, which is difficult to understand, but maybe does fit with Sherlock's character.

We don't really see John forgiving Mary for the shooting: the scene at Christmas seems to about Mary's lies rather than that.   Maybe John takes his lead from Sherlock.

I suppose Amanda's comment could be a spoiler for S4, but I guess not.  I think it's good that she's acknowledging that it's unforgiveable for the audience (which I think is what she is doing).

She did say it!

"She’s a flawed character, because of what she’s done, and she shoots Sherlock and that’s unforgiveable! But underneath all that, I think she’s a good, strong female role and that’s quite important, especially nowadays."

is what she said, not:

"and that’s unforgiveable for the audience/casual viewers/ ..." - whatever you might want to insert so that it's clear she meant it like that.

(cross, Susi)

Last edited by Harriet (November 28, 2015 11:46 am)

Thanks for the addition, ukaunz.

(Makes me wonder if Amanda knows a lot about what is going on in the fandom, though 

I really wonder what this forum is for if not for discussing readings beneath the surface.

Indeed. The question is what we make of them. I like to see Mrs Holmes representing part of the fandom. She regards shooting Sherlock as unforgivable. And I am sure she would not serve Mary her tea if she knew.

Vhanja wrote:

I think it's possible for a person to do an act that is so horrible that it's unforgiveable, but that doesn't mean the person him/herself is completely and utterly evil and with no good or redeeming features outside of that action. There is more to a person than one horrible act. 

I got the impression that was what Amanda was trying to get across.

Yes, that was my impression, too. And I guess I can live with that, at least much better than with feeling pressured to forgive her act for whatever reasons - scared, did it out of love, makes a sacrifice, Sherlock had it coming.. whatever. The excuses really bothered me. Saying she is a good strong role that did unforgivable things (but gets a second chance nonetheless) might be just a subtle difference, but makes it easier to swallow for me than trying to find excuses for what she´s done.

 

besleybean wrote:

Anyhow, after all of that...
Surely it doesn't really matter what WE(or even Amanda) think about Mary and what she did.
For me what is important is how the boys react and relate to her.
And they both clearly forgive her, give her a second chance and move on...

Just for the record it is possible to say and do one thing while your intentions are completely different.  This has happened many times on the show with TRF episode being the largest example.   

Many of us do not take John and Sherlock's forgiveness at face value and can site clues that make us think there is a lot more going on under the surface.    If nothing else, the fact that they leave the months between the domestic and Christmas totally blank is very specious.
 

besleybean wrote:

Though we leave them on the tarmac...
Well, we'll know next season...possibly.

And many also view the tarmac as a facade.  

We have much to learn in S4.

I'm actually wondering how people will react if the end of season 4 has Mary and John still together, still forgiven?