RavenMorganLeigh wrote:

So far, we have made Sherlock's mind palace an unreliable source, Medical research by experts is now suspect, and now Moffatt's writing ( when it comes to research) is slapdash and unreliable. All of this to vindicate Mary. Just sayin'. 

The problem with this approach is that now-- we can't believe anything the show has to tell us, we can't even believe our own eyes. If facts are mutable and can be re-shaped to suit one's feelings, what use is fact? It's fact that Mary shot Sherlock. It's fact that he flatlined, and nearly died. It's fact that he was in the hospital for a long, long time due to his injury. It's fact that Mary lied about her past, and shot Sherlock to cover it up. And also that after that, she threatened him, and then stalked him to threaten him again. 

But, maybe I only imagined those things... maybe it never happened... it was dream sequence!! 

Errrrr......



 

It's not that his mind palace is "unreliable", but that it's based on what he knows, observations, memories, relationships, etc.  He's not supposed to be psychic, just very good at deduction.  But he can't use his mind palace to make deductions based on knowledge that he only has after he comes round from being shot.  

Again, the medical opinons are not suspect, but they are based on a fictional account.   We're never told exactly what injuries Sherlock suffered, only given an idea of the location, and that his heart stopped, and that it was a long recovery.  The long recovery itself it puzzling - it's very unusual these days for somebody to be in hospital for so long, and we're never given an explanation. For comparism, I believe people would usually stay in hospital for not more than a week after open heart surgery, or a month after a heart transplant.  By the time he meets Magnussen in the cafe (whenever that is) he's clearly ambulent and eating and drinking normally.   Rehab could be done as an outpatient.   It's quite possible that he had a series of complications that needed to be treated as an inpatient, but we're never given any information at all about this.  (Incidentally I read on another doctor's blog that it's difficult to kill somebody by shooting them in the chest). 

In the end, it's fantasy in a way.  It's not written from a medical background, but to make a good story.  I appreciate the medics analysing it (I've read the pieces by both the writers mentioned here before, and enjoyed them immensely), but if you look at the medical stuff in the series in general, then it tends to be a bit off.

I'm not trying to vindicate Mary, but to try to understand her motivations (we're given so little information there, and have to "deduce"), and where the story is going with it.    I understand if you think the evidence points to Mary trying to kill Sherlock.  I did too, and was expecting another "twist".  But for the reasons I've given, I no longer think that's the case.  There still could be another twist in S4, and Mary could be a villain, but I don't think it will hinge on the shooting. 



 

Last edited by Liberty (October 8, 2015 9:10 pm)

Liberty wrote:

RavenMorganLeigh wrote:

So far, we have made Sherlock's mind palace an unreliable source, Medical research by experts is now suspect, and now Moffatt's writing ( when it comes to research) is slapdash and unreliable. All of this to vindicate Mary. Just sayin'. 

The problem with this approach is that now-- we can't believe anything the show has to tell us, we can't even believe our own eyes. If facts are mutable and can be re-shaped to suit one's feelings, what use is fact? It's fact that Mary shot Sherlock. It's fact that he flatlined, and nearly died. It's fact that he was in the hospital for a long, long time due to his injury. It's fact that Mary lied about her past, and shot Sherlock to cover it up. And also that after that, she threatened him, and then stalked him to threaten him again. 

But, maybe I only imagined those things... maybe it never happened... it was dream sequence!! 

Errrrr......



 

It's not that his mind palace is "unreliable", but that it's based on what he knows, observations, memories, relationships, etc.  He's not supposed to be psychic, just very good at deduction.  But he can't use his mind palace to make deductions based on knowledge that he only has after he comes round from being shot.  

Again, the medical opinons are not suspect, but they are based on a fictional account.   We're never told exactly what injuries Sherlock suffered, only given an idea of the location, and that his heart stopped, and that it was a long recovery.  The long recovery itself it puzzling - it's very unusual these days for somebody to be in hospital for so long, and we're never given an explanation. For comparism, I believe people would usually stay in hospital for not more than a week after open heart surgery, or a month after a heart transplant.  By the time he meets Magnussen in the cafe (whenever that is) he's clearly ambulent and eating and drinking normally.   Rehab could be done as an outpatient.   It's quite possible that he had a series of complications that needed to be treated as an inpatient, but we're never given any information at all about this.  (Incidentally I read on another doctor's blog that it's difficult to kill somebody by shooting them in the chest). 

In the end, it's fantasy in a way.  It's not written from a medical background, but to make a good story.  I appreciate the medics analysing it (I've read the pieces by both the writers mentioned here before, and enjoyed them immensely), but if you look at the medical stuff in the series in general, then it tends to be a bit off.

I'm not trying to vindicate Mary, but to try to understand her motivations (we're given so little information there, and have to "deduce"), and where the story is going with it.    I understand if you think the evidence points to Mary trying to kill Sherlock.  I did too, and was expecting another "twist".  But for the reasons I've given, I no longer think that's the case.  There still could be another twist in S4, and Mary could be a villain, but I don't think it will hinge on the shooting. 



 

 
Actually, back in March, I was hospitalized for 3 and a half weeks due to perotonitis from an imploding appendix.  So, long hospitalizations do happen.

The sheer length of time it took for Sherlock to recover should tell us that Mary's shot wasn't as benign as it's sometimes characterized as being.

RavenMorganLeigh wrote:

The sheer length of time it took for Sherlock to recover should tell us that Mary's shot wasn't as benign as it's sometimes characterized as being.

Maybe Mary has read just the wrong meta ... 
 

Last edited by Harriet (October 8, 2015 10:02 pm)

Liberty wrote:

In the end, it's fantasy in a way.  It's not written from a medical background, but to make a good story.  I appreciate the medics analysing it (I've read the pieces by both the writers mentioned here before, and enjoyed them immensely), but if you look at the medical stuff in the series in general, then it tends to be a bit off.

I'm not trying to vindicate Mary, but to try to understand her motivations (we're given so little information there, and have to "deduce"), and where the story is going with it.    I understand if you think the evidence points to Mary trying to kill Sherlock.  I did too, and was expecting another "twist".  But for the reasons I've given, I no longer think that's the case.  There still could be another twist in S4, and Mary could be a villain, but I don't think it will hinge on the shooting. 
 

 I agree.. sadly. I would have loved for Mary to be a villain, and I will never be able to swallow the surgery-explanation. Not because it doesn't make much sense.. I could live with that. Medical conditions in TV shows often don't make any sense. The massive problem I'm having with it is that because of the long build-up of suspense it doesn't make any emotional and psychological sense to me.. I just can't stay in the shows universe while watching it, see the things Mary does afterwards, her facial expressions and reactions, and still think this is a satisfactory resolution for what has happened (maybe it's also partly to blame on Benedicts brilliant and heartbreaking performance which left a massive impact on me - such an impact can not be undone by some "mixed messages, I grant you"- handwaving comments). For quite a long time I thought this points toward Mary being the cliffhanger and there was still more to it, but after the commentary this has changed. I'm not in the camp who believes that every word they say is just a lie to protect future plot points.. so I have to entertain the possibility that it is meant to be taken at face value. And talking to casual viewers and judging from the figures and awards they received it worked just fine for the majority. So.. yeah. It doesn't work for me and I feel that after the blue cushion and the off-switch the "surgery" has been the one plot twist too many for me.. I'm sure that won't give them sleepless nights though  .

Yes, I feel the same.. I´m not "on board" with the explanation.
We have a lot of misleading clues to add to the drama and surprise effect, but we don´t have many substantial evidence to support the explanation afterwards. We are not shown but told what to believe - and even what we´re told completely relies on deductions that are based on things like exactly measuring the time while being unconscious and bleeding out, and all ambulances in central London exactly arriving 8 minutes after the incoming call. Even when accepting Sherlock´s deductions as some kind of superpower and the heightened reality of the show´s universe, that´s not exactly something that makes me go "ah, of course.. now it all makes sense. She totally saved his life. And you got me thinking she was a baddie for putting him through the agony of his life and as close to his slab as it can get. And repeatedly threatening him afterwards. And appearing stone-cold in the face of his and John´s suffering. Clever, very clever.. you totally had me. The average time an ambulance takes, I should have thought of that.. Keep up the good work, everyone!" 

Here here.
I'm hoping that this is a "trust us - this is going somewhere really good in S4" situation.

It does give one pause.   

It gives me hope. Because Mary has not paid the price yet.

True. But it would quite against what Mark said and I have the feeling that their basic ideas about Sherlock Holmes are very similar. And the Watson marriage is the only one to which this might apply. The Smallwoods are not important enough IMO. And is shows how long they have been thinking about these things. 

Well said!
*applauds *