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April 9, 2015 8:02 pm  #41


Re: Is Sherlock selfish?

"Selfishness is being concerned, sometimes excessively or exclusively, for oneself or one's own advantage, pleasure, or welfare, regardless of others.[1][/url][url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selfishness#cite_note-2][2]", ,according to Wikipedia. I would say that for the most part Sherlock is mostly concerned with his own advantage and pleasure. 

I think someone said it well in this thread when they stated that Sherlock was mostly selfish when it came to the small things (if you would call the general cases for "small"), and selfless in the bigger things (John's welfare). 

 

Last edited by Vhanja (April 9, 2015 8:02 pm)


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April 9, 2015 8:46 pm  #42


Re: Is Sherlock selfish?

Vhanja wrote:

I would say that for the most part Sherlock is mostly concerned with his own advantage and pleasure. 
 

But not excessively or exclusively and not regardless of others. 
 


-----------------------------------

I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

 

April 9, 2015 8:59 pm  #43


Re: Is Sherlock selfish?

I am not sure if I would call it pleasure. Is it not more the attempt to keep boredom away, to fight the demons that possibly made him a drug addict, to use his mind to keep it from driving him mad? Of course there is also shameless joy about fascinating cases but I do not think that pleasure is the main motivator. And if this is true, I would not call it selfish but self-protective. 
(Just have a look at nakahara's sig)
 

Last edited by SusiGo (April 9, 2015 8:59 pm)


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

April 10, 2015 6:40 am  #44


Re: Is Sherlock selfish?

Self-protective - yes, I think that's true, Susigo.   And after all, he's not doing it at the expense of others - his work benefits others, even if it benefits him as well. 

I think he's possibly less selfish than the average person. 

Last edited by Liberty (April 10, 2015 6:40 am)

 

April 10, 2015 7:07 am  #45


Re: Is Sherlock selfish?

He often does it at the expense of others, and you don't have to do it excessively or exclusively for it to be considered selfish.


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"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings


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April 10, 2015 8:02 am  #46


Re: Is Sherlock selfish?

When exactly does he do things at the expense of others without anyone but himself profiting from it? I would say never. In HoB he drugs John, true. But he only does so in order to solve the case, i.e. to help Henry Knight. He deludes Janine, but only because he is working for Lady Smallwood. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

April 10, 2015 8:47 am  #47


Re: Is Sherlock selfish?

A lovely light wrote:

I think it is safe to say that Sherlock is rude, for him the end of the road is more important than how is the way, he doesn't spend too many thoughts about morality. [...]
I see Sherlock very seldom as selfish (for example when he makes Molly compliments to get his way).

This is a very good example for how difficult it seems to be to agree on what is really selfish and what isn't - even though two definitions have been given already in this thread.
Because in my opinion when he's paying Molly compliments to make her help him - that's rude and a bit mean. But I never thought about him being selfish here, because yes, at first sight it seems as if he were doing this to get his way and get an advantage out of it, but there is more to it. He wants to solve the case. And yes, he could just explain this to Molly and ask her to help him, but not doing it like this doesn't mean he's selfish. He's not doing this regardless of others - regardless of Molly, yes, but at the same time trying to solve the case and save somebody's life.
If he'd played Molly like this in order to make her let him have the food she just bought because he's hungry, that would be selfish. And also pretty rude.
 

Last edited by SolarSystem (April 10, 2015 8:49 am)


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"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 

April 10, 2015 9:29 am  #48


Re: Is Sherlock selfish?

SusiGo wrote:

When exactly does he do things at the expense of others without anyone but himself profiting from it? I would say never. In HoB he drugs John, true. But he only does so in order to solve the case, i.e. to help Henry Knight. He deludes Janine, but only because he is working for Lady Smallwood. 

It doesn't have to be that anyone else can't profit from it, but that the main reason for him doing it is to satisify his own needs and wishes at the expense of others.


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings


Team Hudders!
 
 

April 10, 2015 10:50 am  #49


Re: Is Sherlock selfish?

Sherlock is doing his job for Lady Smallwood, nothing else. As far as we know, he never had any contact with Magnussen before. Would you say that everyone who does his oder her job and gains satisfaction from it was selfish? 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

April 10, 2015 11:39 am  #50


Re: Is Sherlock selfish?

I also see Sherlock as more rude than selfish.  
He cannot abide anything that slows down his process and will do what he feels he has to to get information and solve his case.  He has no problem being mean or decietful if that's what it takes.
And this is not "excusing his behavior."  His behavior is appauling sometimes.  It's just explaining it.


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Proud President and Founder of the OSAJ.  
Honorary German  
"Anyone who takes himself too seriously always runs the risk of looking ridiculous; anyone who can consistently laugh at himself does not".
 -Vaclav Havel 
"Life is full of wonder, Love is never wrong."   Melissa Ethridge

I ship it harder than Mrs. Hudson.
    
 
 

April 10, 2015 12:49 pm  #51


Re: Is Sherlock selfish?

I don't think selfish is quite the right word for Sherlock's behaviour. I was thinking perhaps narcissism would be a better description, but I wasn't sure (I've never studied psychology), so I did some googling. I'm still not sure, but I came across this interesting article Just for Fun: Has Cumberbatch’s Sherlock Holmes Erred in his Self-Diagnosis?. I guess selfishness or self-centred behaviour is part of narcissism. What do you think?

Last edited by ukaunz (April 10, 2015 12:50 pm)


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April 10, 2015 1:02 pm  #52


Re: Is Sherlock selfish?

"Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends."


Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.   Independent OSAJ Affiliate

... but there may be some new players now. It’s okay. The East Wind takes us all in the end.
 

April 10, 2015 1:07 pm  #53


Re: Is Sherlock selfish?

ukaunz: Sherlock's mental health has been largely discussed here:

http://sherlock.boardhost.com/viewtopic.php?id=1197
Sherlock- Asperger's syndrome and sociopathy

and here
http://sherlock.boardhost.com/viewtopic.php?id=2164
Sherlock OCD?

so let's keep this topic there, thanks 


Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.   Independent OSAJ Affiliate

... but there may be some new players now. It’s okay. The East Wind takes us all in the end.
 

April 10, 2015 1:55 pm  #54


Re: Is Sherlock selfish?

tonnaree wrote:

I also see Sherlock as more rude than selfish.  
He cannot abide anything that slows down his process and will do what he feels he has to to get information and solve his case.  He has no problem being mean or decietful if that's what it takes.
And this is not "excusing his behavior."  His behavior is appauling sometimes.  It's just explaining it.

I don't see your post as excusing his behaviour. I think his selfishness comes out as being rude, it's sort of the outlet of it.


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"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings


Team Hudders!
 
 

April 10, 2015 2:11 pm  #55


Re: Is Sherlock selfish?

Harriet wrote:

"Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends."

This. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

April 10, 2015 3:02 pm  #56


Re: Is Sherlock selfish?

SusiGo wrote:

Harriet wrote:

"Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends."

This. 

 
*heart breaks into little pieces*


----------------------------------------------------------------------
Proud President and Founder of the OSAJ.  
Honorary German  
"Anyone who takes himself too seriously always runs the risk of looking ridiculous; anyone who can consistently laugh at himself does not".
 -Vaclav Havel 
"Life is full of wonder, Love is never wrong."   Melissa Ethridge

I ship it harder than Mrs. Hudson.
    
 
 

April 10, 2015 3:49 pm  #57


Re: Is Sherlock selfish?

Harriet wrote:

"Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends."

But having great love for someone, and being brave and caring enough to risk his life for it, does not mean we can't admit that he also has negative qualities. 


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings


Team Hudders!
 
 

April 10, 2015 8:26 pm  #58


Re: Is Sherlock selfish?

No one claimed that Sherlock has no negative qualities - still, he seems rude and reckless and negligent rather than selfish. (He has some negative qualities, not all that exist).


-----------------------------------

I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

 

April 10, 2015 8:36 pm  #59


Re: Is Sherlock selfish?

I'm just waiting for someone explaining to me why this caring and brave love is actually a selfish thing 


Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.   Independent OSAJ Affiliate

... but there may be some new players now. It’s okay. The East Wind takes us all in the end.
 

April 10, 2015 10:03 pm  #60


Re: Is Sherlock selfish?

I am not sure how you understood people in the thread to think that him being caring and loving is the parts that is considered selfish.


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings


Team Hudders!
 
 

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