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March 29, 2015 10:02 pm  #3721


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Wow 96% ...that's quite a huge percentage, isn't it? No, I wouldn't assume anything like that, either. 
I do think that if the writers wanted to make that point across they would make it clear, but...there would be no fun in that, would there? Enjoying the thrill of the chase is fine, after all
By the way (though I think you've googled their penname already), ivyblossom does write fanfiction


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I'd be lost without my blogger.
"It’s not a ‘gang’ show, it’s the Sherlock and John show. It’s about developing their characters and their relationship, and the characters drawn into their orbit.”  Steven Moffat



 
 

March 30, 2015 7:13 am  #3722


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

She is one of the best IMO. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

March 30, 2015 7:36 am  #3723


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

I think it's also possible that the writers didn't have much to do with this - it's a prop.   It could be that Martin filled it him himself, or somebody filled it in for him - either way, what to tick was probably the decision of the person filling in the form.  And it's possible that they did mean something by it (it wouldn't surprise me if there were Johnlockers amongst the crew!), but it's so subtle that it was probably more for their own entertainment than a clue for the audience, I would think. 

(Also, this particular rule on donating blood is a little controversial).

 

March 30, 2015 7:39 am  #3724


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Yes, the sense of this rule is highly questionable IMO. Slightly OT: I recently watched a German TV documentation about a gay journalist who investigated homophobia in daily life. He wanted to register as a possible bone marrow donator and was excluded for the same reason. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

March 30, 2015 1:12 pm  #3725


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

We are trying to get the blood rules changed in the US.  Sadly though the first suggeston for change was to adopt the "No sex for 12 months" rule.  This is just ridiculous.  If you want to have that rule then it should apply to EVERYONE!    I would guess that there are more straight people practicing unsafe sex than gays at this point.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
Proud President and Founder of the OSAJ.  
Honorary German  
"Anyone who takes himself too seriously always runs the risk of looking ridiculous; anyone who can consistently laugh at himself does not".
 -Vaclav Havel 
"Life is full of wonder, Love is never wrong."   Melissa Ethridge

I ship it harder than Mrs. Hudson.
    
 
 

March 31, 2015 2:29 pm  #3726


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Well, this sums it all up pretty nicely. I do have to admit that I find some of the points a bit too overanalyzing, but there are some fairly convincing stuff in here as well:

http://221behavior.tumblr.com/post/115117183322/cherrybee75-the-johnlock-conspiracy-your-guide-to


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings


Team Hudders!
 
 

March 31, 2015 2:48 pm  #3727


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

I am appalled by these countries ban on blood donation for homosexuals (in France, this law is against gay men). Again, in France, there's a petition to try and make it legal, but apparently it's really not going to happen soon. Nonsense. I agree with tonnaree, this rule should apply to everyone if there should be such a rule.  I don't know about organ donation in other countries, but a gay man can donate his organs. Not his blood. And we're back on "nonsense"...

Thank you, Vhanja, for the link !


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd be lost without my blogger.
"It’s not a ‘gang’ show, it’s the Sherlock and John show. It’s about developing their characters and their relationship, and the characters drawn into their orbit.”  Steven Moffat



 
 

April 3, 2015 9:00 pm  #3728


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Not quite sure what thread this bit would fit in, so I just put it here. I've never thought of it that way, but it's kind of moving. Poor Sherlock.

http://cant-deny-the-johnlock-ship.tumblr.com/post/115411582096/zombiejohnlock-oh-sherlock


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings


Team Hudders!
 
 

April 3, 2015 9:19 pm  #3729


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Poor both of them .

 

April 16, 2015 8:56 pm  #3730


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

So WHY aren't you doing exactly this, now that you have the perfect opportunity?

*sighs*

http://loudest-subtext-in-television.tumblr.com/post/116583021171/mark-gatiss-on-the-changing-portrayal-of-lgbt


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings


Team Hudders!
 
 

April 16, 2015 9:14 pm  #3731


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Vhanja wrote:

So WHY aren't you doing exactly this, now that you have the perfect opportunity?

*sighs*

http://loudest-subtext-in-television.tumblr.com/post/116583021171/mark-gatiss-on-the-changing-portrayal-of-lgbt

Mark, really dude?!?!?


----------------------------------------------------------------------
Proud President and Founder of the OSAJ.  
Honorary German  
"Anyone who takes himself too seriously always runs the risk of looking ridiculous; anyone who can consistently laugh at himself does not".
 -Vaclav Havel 
"Life is full of wonder, Love is never wrong."   Melissa Ethridge

I ship it harder than Mrs. Hudson.
    
 
 

April 16, 2015 9:37 pm  #3732


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Vhanja wrote:

So WHY aren't you doing exactly this, now that you have the perfect opportunity?

*sighs*

http://loudest-subtext-in-television.tumblr.com/post/116583021171/mark-gatiss-on-the-changing-portrayal-of-lgbt

Because the endless fan-wank amuses him more? 
 


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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

 

April 17, 2015 7:14 am  #3733


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

I don't know why they didn't do it, but I speculated a while back that it might have been because of Moftiss's childhood views of the characters - friendship is so hugely important to children and maybe they didn't want to change what they'd seen as the perfect friendship in their youth. 

Now, I think they've missed the chance to make them "incidentally gay" like that.   If they were going to do it now, then their sexual orientation would be an issue instead of "normalised" in the way Mark is talking about.

Last edited by Liberty (April 17, 2015 7:14 am)

 

April 26, 2015 1:49 am  #3734


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Ok, what, what what?

I just a read a recap of the Sherlocked convention, where Moftiss were speaking. According to this recap we have the following gem:

"Steven did say that John was not too happy about Sherlock getting along with Mary. "

Source: http://221behavior.tumblr.com/post/117353491897/mark-and-steven-talk-at-sherlocked

Ok, that makes NO sense to me at all. Let's for a moment say that John is hetero and sees Sherlock as this asexual kind of friend, period. 

Wouldn't he be thrilled that his wife and this slightly oddball of a friend who really doesn't get along with anyone, did get along with his wife? 

I don't see John as a jealous type. From the interaction in S3 between Sherlock and Mary, I think it's clear to everyone that the two of them are not romantically interested in each other. (John's remark "You two should've gotten married" I think is just out of sheer frustration and anger that the two of them are oddballs that share a mutual understanding when it comes to stuff that "normal" people wouldn't get).

So why on earth wouldn't John be happy about Sherlock and Mary getting along? If he is hetero and in love with Mary and Mary alone, that makes no sense.

Last edited by Vhanja (April 26, 2015 1:51 am)


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings


Team Hudders!
 
 

April 26, 2015 6:29 am  #3735


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

To be honest, Vhanja, personally I have a hard time interpreting a couple of scenes other than John being jealous. We had this discussion a couple of months ago. But maybe that's just me....
And  you're absolutely right, without Johnlock it doesn't make sense at all.
Mods, is it alright to discuss this based on a quote from the con?


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Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.


"If you're not reading the subtext then hell mend you"  -  Steven Moffat
"Love conquers all" Benedict Cumberbatch on Sherlock's and John's relationship
"This is a show about a detective, his best friend, his wife, their baby and their dog" - Nobody. Ever.

 

April 26, 2015 7:28 am  #3736


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

To be honest, I don't get this from the show (although I'll watch again, with it in mind and see what I think).   I can see it as being possible though - obviously, if you introduce your lover to your better-looking, more intelligent, enigmatic best friend, and they instantly click and get on like a house on fire, then you might feel moments of doubt.  John might see Sherlock as asexual in practice, but he believes that he fell for Irene - he knows that he does have a sexuality.  (And Irene and Mary do have a little bit in common).  I don't think he'd suspect them of having an affair, but I could see him being envious of the bond and the connection.   Sherlock does act differently around Mary (compared to John's other girlfriends) - probably a combination of liking her and recognising that John loves her.   

But I agree, Vhanja, that they don't appear to be romantically interested in each other, and I don't think John suspects that/is jealous of that.  If it's there, it might be more of a dissatisfaction with them ganging up together (which they kind of do, right at the first meeting - when Mary appears to "side" with Sherlock during their arguments and go back to talk to him).  The "you should have got married" comment is about a connection between them (they both used Janine), rather than a hint at anything sexual.   So yes, although I think it's quite possible that a straight man might feel a little sexual jealousy if his wife and very attractive best friend seemed to be attracted to each other, I don't think this is sexual.  I got the impression that on the whole, John's pleased that they do get on with each other.

I don't understand quite what you mean in the context of Johnlock, though.  If he's straight and in love with Mary, then it would make sense for him to feel some jealousy if he thought she was overfriendly with Sherlock, wouldn't it?  (And if John was knowingly in love with Sherlock then he wouldn't be marrying Mary - but that's another story!).

Last edited by Liberty (April 26, 2015 7:39 am)

 

April 26, 2015 7:45 am  #3737


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Indeed. As many other things do not make sense if you assume that John is strictly hetero and Sherlock asexual. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

April 26, 2015 8:15 am  #3738


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

What I mean is that this would make sense in that context - if John was straight and in love with Mary, then of course he could be jealous if he thought she was interested in another man.  I just don't think that's what's happening (Sherlock and Mary have a connection, but not a sexual one).

(I do think John is shown as straight, but I think Sherlock is only shown as asexual by practice - he chooses not to act on his sexuality). 

 

April 26, 2015 8:21 am  #3739


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Liberty, I don't get a couple of points tbh. Mary and Sherlock getting on like a house on fire? That's not at all what I see. They're ganging in TEH, true, but compared to Sherlock and John I feel their chemistry is quite limited. And the ganging is not always shown in a pleasant light, but that's maybe just my opinion.


------------------------------------------------------------

Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.


"If you're not reading the subtext then hell mend you"  -  Steven Moffat
"Love conquers all" Benedict Cumberbatch on Sherlock's and John's relationship
"This is a show about a detective, his best friend, his wife, their baby and their dog" - Nobody. Ever.

 

April 26, 2015 8:25 am  #3740


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

I agree. Regarding the relationship between Sherlock and Mary I have always felt somehow forced, i.e. that I am meant to see something that is not really there. For example Sherlock's quip about John's weight never really rang true to me. And it is such a contrast to Mary's "just fibbing" comments and her manipulation of both men in TSoT. Does not convince me. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

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