I don't like the word much either!  But I don't know if we've got a better word for it?  Romantic friendship?  Platonic love?

SusiGo wrote:

Thank you, Jude. 

http://bert-and-ernie-are-gay.tumblr.com/post/100246140491/kluckleberry-while-bbc-sherlock-is-at-the

Perfect! 

I still haven't seen the films, sitting on my shelf. Though I also haven't watched my Elementary DVDs either...
But anyway and I'm sorry, this is just how my brain works,
Can it even be Johnlock, if the characters call each other Holmes and Watson?!

Schmiezi wrote:

Romance.

But would you really use "romance" in the same way as "bromance"?   It's too broad.  (And bromance is a bit of a jokey term - I don't think anybody actually uses it seriously.  But it does highlight the lack of a word to describe that special relationship, between people of any sex).

But again, that could be any old friendship, not necessarily a romantic friendship. 

Schmiezi wrote:

I am very old school, I guess. For me, it's romance or friendship. I one needs more than one word to explain it, then please, just use more words to explain it.

 
I think this is very wise Schmiezi. 

I'm happy to use more than one word, but it's still difficult to be clear - I've often used "romantic friendship", but I realise that means different things to different people, whereas "bromance" is clearer in its meaning.

I don't include sex in romance ... but I suppose that's just down to semantics.  I could feel romantic about a friend, with no sexual attraction whatsover, but I don't think I would call my relationship with that friend a romance.  (Or a bromance!).   I also see Sherlock as a romantic hero (which is not about sex at all).    So it's a very broad word for me, which covers more than sexual relationships. 

Last edited by Liberty (October 20, 2014 7:36 pm)

I'm not excluding anybody.
But at least one person in the Johnlock scenario is very obviously not asexual.

Somebody here linked to a off-forum post about the scene where John sees Janine at 221B.  It had quite a lot of detail about the cinematography and screencaps, and unfortunately, I know can't find it!  But here's one that is saying something similar - that John is jealous (i.e. that he's attracted to Sherlock and is jealous because he's seeing Janine, not that he's attracted to Janine). 

Anyway, there was an interesting little bit about that in the commentary (I was going to use spoiler tags, but it's hardly a spoiler, so I won't - just don't read on if you haven't got the commentary yet and want it to be a surprise!  And I wrote it down without saying who was saying what, so I might have got that wrong.  And there was a lot more being said - these are just a few lines I've picked out).

(General laughter)
Mark: He just can't believe it!  But he is actually pleased for him.

Steven: I remember the very first cut of this made him look as if he was jealous.  (Laughs) No, no, no, he's THRILLED, but a little bit "What? Out of nowhere you've got the really hot girl from the wedding!  Out of nowhere!".

and later...

Mark: Again, the little romantic part of me wants it to be true.  Wouldn't it be nice?  Wouldn't he be a happier man if he just had a nice girlfriend?

I think we all got it wrong - although I don't see sexual jealousy, I thought there might be an element of John feeling displaced by Janine at 221B.  In fact, what we're seeing is something much more loving about their relationship.  John is just happy for Sherlock (and impressed, because Janine's so gorgeous!).   And watching it again, I can see that and it's rather sweet (and makes me warm to John - that despite so often being kept in the dark, as he is here, he feels this really genuine pleasure that Sherlock might have found something that makes him happy). 

And interesting that in the first take they DID see jealousy - at least, I found it interesting that they could plan to show one thing and inadvertently show another and have to reshoot.  It shows how easy it is to misinterpret, even with a brilliant team.

Anyway, I thought of putting it in the Janine thread, but it's probably best here, considering that it's confirmed that a "girlfriend" is what Mark and John think would make Sherlock happy.

Last edited by Liberty (November 2, 2014 9:03 am)

My transcript may well not be correct (I did check Arianne de Vere, but she hasn't had a lot of time to get one up yet!).   But the gist of it and the tone of voice - no, it didn't come across as Mark not being convinced about Sherlock's sexuality.    It comes across more like a rhetorical question.  What  the romantic part wanted to be true was that Sherlock was dating Janine (rather than using her to get to Magnusson).  You'll hear what I mean when you get the DVDs! 

But the main thing that came across for me was John's genuine delight at Sherlock having a girlfriend.  He just wants him to be happy . 

There's more than that - apparently the last scene with Janine was going to have a nicer ending, with it being implied that Sherlock would go and live with her in the cottage in the end.  But it was changed, because it let Sherlock off the hook.

But I agree about everybody seeing something different.  As I said, I think I was seeing something that wasn't there too.  I just thought it was interesting that they'd shown jealousy by accident, and then deliberately reshot the scene to NOT show jealousy (the post I'd read originally seemed to be saying that the scene was deliberately shot to show jealousy, when, in fact, it's the opposite!).