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January 7, 2014 12:11 pm  #21


Re: Red Beard Clue

My brilliant Red Beard minifigure theory was just shooting the breeze, since work is 'boring' atm. But in TRF John talks to Mycroft about Sherlock supposedly having smurfs or action men and how that could've caused bad blood or traumata between the brothers. Now, CAM had a room full of broken toys. Could he be someone from Sherlock's childhood, maybe just peripheral, like Moriarty?  CAM might have started to collect things about people quite early, as Moriarty started his villain carreer early, too.
#justanotheroddtheory

Last edited by sherlocked (January 7, 2014 12:14 pm)

 

January 7, 2014 12:25 pm  #22


Re: Red Beard Clue

Mrs. Watson, kids can get very upset, if something happens to their favorite toys. I told on the other thread (So3 theories), how my son reacted, when his Batman figure fell into a lake. Maybe somthing happened to a toy of Sherlock, and he couldn't explain it. It remained an unsolved mystery. That would be doubly traumatic for young Sherlock. And it would explain, why he is still upset. Not, because of a toy, but because he couldn't solve something. And this room of broken toys of CAM's WAS creepy.
#still anotheroddtheory

Last edited by sherlocked (January 7, 2014 12:28 pm)

 

January 7, 2014 12:50 pm  #23


Re: Red Beard Clue

You could well be right, swanpride. At the moment we are just running away with theories. But the way it was said and had something to do with not getting too attached to people or things, leads me to believe, it has something to do with Sherlock's childhood.

 

January 7, 2014 1:02 pm  #24


Re: Red Beard Clue

Could it be that Mycroft codenamed CAM "Redbeard" in reference to how he pirates and loots and pillages blackmail information? As well as his beard? 


I will NEVER fire a gun IN my mouth when I'm planning on Stayin Alive! 

The clue that everyone missed?

 

January 7, 2014 1:04 pm  #25


Re: Red Beard Clue

If we consider Barbe-Rouge story, we could even imagine Mary is CAM's adoptive daughter living under a fake identity because unlike him (and like Eric Lerouge), she wants to live a honest life, and not a "pirate" (baddie). (yet I'm sure the Holmes would know about that and again, I can't really imagine Sherlock leaving John marry Mary with that knowledge. Unless it's part of a plan: Sherlock may think he'd get to CAM more easily pretending he doesn't know about this, and sure he will be able to free Mary from CAM, hence his vow to protect her and John... A mistake??)

Also, I find it interesting that he calls her "poppet":

"~~The word poppet is an older spelling of puppet, from the Middle English popet, meaning a small child or doll." (wikipedia)

Puppet, huh? Is it to remind Mary, on her wedding's day, that she's just a puppet for him and that she can do whatever she wants to escape him (getting married, trying to live a normal life), he's still the one pulling the strings, and he can do what he want of her... and of John???

 


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Just like old times...



 
 

January 7, 2014 1:07 pm  #26


Re: Red Beard Clue

Oh, I hadn't seen this part in the definition of "poppet":

"~~In folk-magic and witchcraft, a poppet, also known as Poppits, Moppets, Mommets and Pippies is a doll made to represent a person, for casting spells on that person or to aid that person through magic. They are occasionally found lodged in chimneys.[2] These dolls may be fashioned from such materials as a carved root, grain or corn shafts, a fruit, paper, wax, a potato, clay, branches, or cloth stuffed with herbs with the intent that any actions performed upon the effigy will be transferred to the subject based on sympathetic magic. It was from these European dolls that the myth of Voodoo dolls arose.[2][3] Poppets are also used as kitchen witch figures."


Ahem... Voodoo dolls now...


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Just like old times...



 
 

January 7, 2014 1:13 pm  #27


Re: Red Beard Clue

I think redbeard is a metaphor that is tied to a painful childhood memory, maybe losing the toy or having it destroyed, something like that. It's Mycroft saying to Sherlock: 'don't get attached to people you'll only get hurt'. He's been saying that to Sherlock for two seasons now. He wants to protect him. Sherlock's remark 'Can't handle a broken heart, how very telling' could also be a reference. Maybe Mycroft got hurt too in the past and he doesn't want the same to happen to his brother.

(In my headcanon, Mycroft had a husband who was killed and Mycroft swore never to fall in love again, but that's probably not how they're gonna play it.)

Mark tweeting Redbeard: is he tweeting as Mycroft? Maybe he hints to us, don't get too attached to Mary. Something's gonna happen to her. 

 

January 7, 2014 1:19 pm  #28


Re: Red Beard Clue

Yeah, could be something like a teddy bear named like that simply because Sherlock liked pirates, and he lost it or whatever while he was attached to it.

I like your headcanon idea (well, surely because it reminds me of myself: my husband killed himself a year and a half ago and I swore never to fall in love again and I am as lonely as Mycroft, except i've got my little boy)

And yeah, Mark could just telling us not to get "involved" as well, not to get attached to Mary.


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Just like old times...



 
 

January 7, 2014 1:28 pm  #29


Re: Red Beard Clue

And since we're talking about poppet/puppet now, what about those figurines standing around in that room at the end of TEH where CAM is sitting and watching the tape from the bonfire...? I have been wondering about their meaning since I first saw them...


___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?

"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 

January 7, 2014 1:38 pm  #30


Re: Red Beard Clue

Yeah they were creepy, like that rabbit and that magician top hat... i don't think "poppet" has been chosen innocently.

I'm so obsessed i dreamt of sherlock last night and against all odds, something very bad was happening to mycroft, and not mary. God i hope it's not one of those dreams that get real!


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Just like old times...



 
 

January 7, 2014 1:39 pm  #31


Re: Red Beard Clue

Punch me in the face wrote:

Oh, I hadn't seen this part in the definition of "poppet":

"~~In folk-magic and witchcraft, a poppet, also known as Poppits, Moppets, Mommets and Pippies is a doll made to represent a person, for casting spells on that person or to aid that person through magic. 

Ahem... Voodoo dolls now...

CAM being a master manipulator has the same effect as a blackmailer....Soooo... black-magic = black-mailer? Him being a voodoo guy (one that actually works) is definitely chilling indeed! Now this is GENIOUS!!!!! 

Thumbs up for the discovery friend! 


I will NEVER fire a gun IN my mouth when I'm planning on Stayin Alive! 

The clue that everyone missed?

 

January 7, 2014 1:44 pm  #32


Re: Red Beard Clue

Punch me in the face wrote:

I like your headcanon idea (well, surely because it reminds me of myself: my husband killed himself a year and a half ago and I swore never to fall in love again and I am as lonely as Mycroft, except i've got my little boy).

OMG, I'm sorry, that must have been awful. Hope you're ok. Guess you can relate to the Holmes boys, (though Mycroft is still in denial ). Luckily you don't have to be in love in order to be happy. 

On the poppet theory, it was another telegram, i think, so probably unrelated. I don't think Redbeard is a physical thing that CAM has, I think it's purely a metaphor but who knows.

No idea about the figures, maybe CAM has a very weird taste in decoration. Or they are souvenirs of his victims, little symbolic things that remind him of all the lives he has broken. When he's bored or sad, he looks at them gleefully and feels the testosteron spike of powerrrrr. 

 

January 7, 2014 1:49 pm  #33


Re: Red Beard Clue

Swanpride wrote:

Perhaps he is collecting figurines? The plot of "The illustious client" and "Charles August Milverton" is very similiar, it would make sense to connect CAM and Baron Gruner...and Gruner collected chinese ceramics.

But I want Gruner to be a separate villain and to be played by David Tennant. 

That'd be awesome, and let him keep his Scottish accent. After hearing Moff imitating DW villains I'm convinced that all villains should be Scottish. Is there a Scottish name that sounds like Gruner? 

 

January 7, 2014 2:20 pm  #34


Re: Red Beard Clue

Swanpride wrote:

Or it's a reference to him being a puppet player, so to speak.

 Too predictable I think. But we'll only know after HLV...


I will NEVER fire a gun IN my mouth when I'm planning on Stayin Alive! 

The clue that everyone missed?

 

January 7, 2014 4:04 pm  #35


Re: Red Beard Clue

Haven't read the whole thread, sorry.

Sherlock clearly sees that Mary is not the danger but that she's probably in danger which is why he vows to protect her. If she has got a secret which Sherlock knows about then it must be a secret that doesn't make her a bad person but rather a careful person and he obviously accepts that.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Falling is just like flying, except there’s a more permanent destination."

"Sherlock Holmes is a great man, and I think one day—if we’re very very lucky—he might even be a good one."

"Would you like to-"
"-have dinner?"
"-solve crimes?"
"Oh"



 

January 7, 2014 4:06 pm  #36


Re: Red Beard Clue

Swanpride wrote:

Okay...here my theory:

The whole end of the phone call from "by the way" onwards is not about the wedding at all! It is just worded the way that we assume it is, after all the talk about Sherlock's involvement in the wedding. But if you disconnect this part from the rest and see it as stand alone, you get this:

"Do you remember - Red Beard?"
(pause) "I am not a child anymore, Mycroft!"
"No, of course you are not. Enjoy not getting involved."

And taking this alone...to me it sounds as if Mycroft wanted Sherlock to do something for him, something involving a project with the code name "red beard", but Sherlock declined. Perhaps in the end, it is not something what he does which leads to the most likely impending tragedy, but something he didn't do. And if Mary has a secret, he allready knows about it, but decides not to act on it and keep it for himself, for John's and Mary's sake.

Mmm, those are quite a few conclusion from relatively little data. I doubt it's that complex, it's obviously something from the past, but can we take a moment and reflect, to soak up the delicious sarcasm in that phrase 'Enjoy not getting involved'.

I think it's their what tv-tropes calls 'noodle incident'. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NoodleIncident
Warning, this link goes to tvtropes a site that can soak all the time out of our day. There's another of those noodle incidents in sherlock, somewhere Mycroft says 'we don't want a repeat of 1972'. I'm pessimistic that we're ever gonna get an answer to what it means. 
 

 

January 7, 2014 4:27 pm  #37


Re: Red Beard Clue

I don't think it's a "noodle incident" (ah, tvtrope... yeah... time consuming! I ventured there a while ago while searching things about Supernatural and spent far too much time there), if it was, why would Gatiss mention it on his twitter?


************************
Just like old times...



 
 

January 7, 2014 4:32 pm  #38


Re: Red Beard Clue

Mary Me wrote:

Haven't read the whole thread, sorry.

Sherlock clearly sees that Mary is not the danger but that she's probably in danger which is why he vows to protect her. If she has got a secret which Sherlock knows about then it must be a secret that doesn't make her a bad person but rather a careful person and he obviously accepts that.

 
Totally agree.  If Sherlock thought for one minute that Mary was a danger he wouldn't hesitate to do something.  He's loyalties to John have no boundries. 
Just look at the little scene with Mary's Ex.  If he interfeared in something as small as that..........


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January 7, 2014 4:45 pm  #39


Re: Red Beard Clue

tonnaree wrote:

Mary Me wrote:

Haven't read the whole thread, sorry.

Sherlock clearly sees that Mary is not the danger but that she's probably in danger which is why he vows to protect her. If she has got a secret which Sherlock knows about then it must be a secret that doesn't make her a bad person but rather a careful person and he obviously accepts that.

 
Totally agree.  If Sherlock thought for one minute that Mary was a danger he wouldn't hesitate to do something.  He's loyalties to John have no boundries. 
Just look at the little scene with Mary's Ex.  If he interfeared in something as small as that..........

Well, but it's possible for her to be both things at the same time... she could be in danger and at the same time be a danger to other people because of the people she herself is endangered by.
 

Last edited by SolarSystem (January 7, 2014 4:45 pm)


___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?

"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 

January 7, 2014 5:03 pm  #40


Re: Red Beard Clue

sure. Sherlock's expression did change at the end after he told them about the baby and after seeing Mary's reaction.
I do realise it could have just been because he realised he doesn't have a place in their life any longer (or he has a different one now) but I just had a feeling it was related to Mary's reaction.

 

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