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March 26, 2017 7:39 pm  #41


Re: Are you satisfied with TFP as an ending for the series?

I am not sure I believe in a S 5, never mind a S 6.
I love the show too much as well, but unfortunately our love alone cannot make it continue.

Phantom, I really don't see how you could even hope for more in just two years...why would they have wound things up now?  I mean that would just be a normal wait for us.


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March 27, 2017 10:12 am  #42


Re: Are you satisfied with TFP as an ending for the series?

I would just for wish for a little honesty - with Doctor Who, it was no problem to tell fans that Steven would leave the show. Sure, it is different since DW is going to continue whereas Sherlock would not. Still, I think it would be honest and professional to tell people if and when something is over. And I am addressing the creators as well as the BBC. 
And in this context I wonder about this sales presentation in February. Why all that fuss for a show that was not going to continue? Why advertise something that is not for sale anymore?
 


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
 

March 27, 2017 5:21 pm  #43


Re: Are you satisfied with TFP as an ending for the series?

Hard question.
In my first or second posting in the topic concerning TFP, I wrote, that this episode was different. (I mean very different! Not only the "series 3 and 4 as a whole have been different as well" talking.) I wrote, that it would be hard to watch TFP a second time and that I don't know if I ever will. I stayed true to that, at least until today. (I will 100% watch it when the German dub comes out. I don't know if you can understand it, but for me this would count to the first and only viewing as well. Because for me, it is a different feeling to watch something in your mother tongue. So it would still be the first viewing of something.)
So, yeah I only watched TFP once. I saw some people's reaction videos or fan videos with short scenes on youtube, but never the whole thing after the first viewing. I was so drained and exhausted (and happy) by the emotional impact this episode had on me.

And I think my answer to this thread's question is that I can accept it as an ending to the series. But, pure and simple, I cannot say that I am satisfied or content.

Something's missing or something isn't right about it.
My main issue is, that TFP doesn't have the Sherlock feeling to it, as somebody already said so here in this thread. Series 1-3 all had it and TLD had it very much, and btw from T6T the Sherlock feeling was missing, too. A finale should have the Sherlock feeling. And Eurus... well, I'm not content with Eurus. For me it still is a bit like: what kind of character is that supposed to be??? I don't understand how her character is supposed to work in the show that we have been watching for 11(+1 special) episodes. I don't see her fitting in the Sherlock universe and I don't like her being the main focus and being the solution to "everything". That she is supposed the one, that everything is resolving around now. A device picked up from out of nowhere (those vague and very brief mentions of "Redbeard" don't count.) to force Sherlock's (and John's, Mycroft's) characterisation. I LOVE where all our main characters went and what great moments we got, BUT I think I could only say, that I would be satisfied with TFP as an ending if all of this had happened in a more normal, sherlocky, London/221B-focused and down to earth setting.
They managed to do that perfectly in TLD. Created strong emotional impact and character development with very simple scenes, e.g. Sherlock talking about suicide. For me it is hard to believe and a bit disappointing that they weren't able to do that for this last stage of character development in TFP.All those gut-wrenching things, that happened in the different chambers in Sherrinford, woven into a nice mysterious detective case, maybe a case that has been evolving since some time in the series, maybe even a new one, that would have been a perfect ending. Yes, I've got high expectations. ;) But you want an honest answer and this is what it is, when I listen honestly to how I am feeling about it right now.


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Breathing is boring!

English isn't my first language, feel free to correct me via PM!
 

March 27, 2017 5:54 pm  #44


Re: Are you satisfied with TFP as an ending for the series?

I don't see them as not being honest about whether or not there will be another season. They all say the same thing - they love the show, they would love to make more, but they would have to wait and see because they all are busy doing other things for the foreseeable future. There is nothing about that statement that I find hard to believe.


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March 27, 2017 5:56 pm  #45


Re: Are you satisfied with TFP as an ending for the series?

^ This. Also they dropped Moriarty half way of his "second story arch" (the first being S1-S2). There are still details that weren't resolved. Like why Sherlock was so terrified of him (the moment in HOB when he sees his face while under drugs, and the padded cell scene, Jim appearing in TAB and the miss me thing). BTW, how could Mary know about "miss me" at all?
I even wonder how the story would work, if Jim took place of Eurus as the cause of the childhood trauma, and it would be him who Sherlock erased from his memory.

 

March 27, 2017 6:03 pm  #46


Re: Are you satisfied with TFP as an ending for the series?

I think Sherlock was so terrified of Moriarty because he reminded him of himself - if he had become the "sosiopath" he originally wanted to be. Sherlock and Moriarty are more or less two sides of a coin the way I see it. And Sherlock was very intrigued by Moriarty - perhaps that scared him a bit too?


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings
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Team Hudders!
 
 

March 27, 2017 6:04 pm  #47


Re: Are you satisfied with TFP as an ending for the series?

Vhanja: You know what my problem with this attitude (theirs, not yours) is? You can do this with a show that has episodes that can stand alone, that are independent from each other or the next series or the one before. In Sherlock, however, they are telling a more or less continuous story. It is open to discussion if TFP is a proper final episode or not. To me it feels as if five minutes before the end they had become anxious and had slapped on the DVD, just in case that this was the real end. 

Rache: It may have been me who said that it it did not feel like Sherlock and I still think so. To me, TFP is like a foreign body in the show and it feels far more alien than TAB ever did. Because TAB felt like Sherlock Holmes to me and TFP does not. 
 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
 

March 27, 2017 6:09 pm  #48


Re: Are you satisfied with TFP as an ending for the series?

SusiGo: Well, then we are back to the question of the thread. I have no problem seeing this as the end of the story, at least the origin story of Sherlock (and John). Wherever they go from here, if we get more seasons, will be a new start. The chapters/part about Sherlock's origin story, and becoming the Sherlock Holmes we know from the ACD-stories and other interpretations, is now over,. And we might, or might not, get a new part of their story. And I am fine with that.

I don't think they can say anything else about it, to be honest. I don't think neither Ben nor Martin wants to give a definite yes or no yet. I don't think either of them totally dismisses making a new seaons, but that they are both ready to look to other projects for a while, so they don't want to make any more Sherlock commitment at the moment. Something I completely understand. They are both rising stars, and have so much going for them, career-wise. I wish them all the best in their future projects. 

Perhaps the dust will settle a bit some years for now, and everyone is ready to make another season. If that happens, I will be thrilled. But I am not waiting around for it. As far as I see it, BBC Sherlock is over - at least for now. And I am very much content with the origin story we got. It's new, it's original and it has some great characterisations and developments.

It's certainly not perfect, but nothing is. To me, the pros more than outweigh the cons.


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings
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Team Hudders!
 
 

March 27, 2017 6:42 pm  #49


Re: Are you satisfied with TFP as an ending for the series?

I don't think there's any subterfuge about S5 either.  I think it's probably just as they say - they'd love to carry on, but it seems that it might be too difficult to make it happen.  So they've given us something that feels like an ending, if they don't make any more, but is a great starting point if they do - no loose ends to tidy up, no cliffhanger, no ongoing story.  They can go wherever they want with S5.

I think the change of tone was fine ... the Rathbone/Bruce films played with supernatural/horror elements (as did ACD himself, I suppose). 

I've always thought there was a kind of fantasy element to the series, and I suppose they've just expanded that in TFP.  I never did really feel that Sherlock actually existed in our world.  It kind of makes sense for him to have a superhero/comic book style beginning.  I can really picture TFP as a graphic novel.

Last edited by Liberty (March 27, 2017 6:44 pm)

 

March 27, 2017 9:21 pm  #50


Re: Are you satisfied with TFP as an ending for the series?

SusiGo wrote:

Rache: It may have been me who said that it it did not feel like Sherlock and I still think so. To me, TFP is like a foreign body in the show and it feels far more alien than TAB ever did. Because TAB felt like Sherlock Holmes to me and TFP does not. 
 

Yeah, it was you, Susi, right. ;)
I totally agree. Astonishing how series 4 feels so different in itself. TLD has totally got the "Sherlock feel". TFP is just very clearly strange and a contrast to everything else (not bad, better than T6T, which felt a bit alien as well.)


- - -

Breathing is boring!

English isn't my first language, feel free to correct me via PM!
 

March 28, 2017 5:27 am  #51


Re: Are you satisfied with TFP as an ending for the series?

Yes, it felt very last episode, to me.


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March 30, 2017 3:29 pm  #52


Re: Are you satisfied with TFP as an ending for the series?

JP wrote:

 BTW, how could Mary know about "miss me" at all?

While I suppose we could say it is left somewhat open whether she used "Miss Me?" on her DVDs to mislead Sherlock or not into thinking it was about Moriarty, I think she definitely would have known about the "Did you miss me?" with Moriarty's face that was shown all over London (on buildings, TV, etc.), since that was the reason that Sherlock's plane was turned around and she was with John on the tarmac.

Last edited by Yitzock (March 30, 2017 3:31 pm)


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Clueing for looks.
 

March 30, 2017 6:52 pm  #53


Re: Are you satisfied with TFP as an ending for the series?

Right. Funny, I always saw it as an echo of TAB, because even the writing seemed similar. The same with the impact it had on Sherlock - he was terrified seeing it written on the tag.

 

March 30, 2017 6:55 pm  #54


Re: Are you satisfied with TFP as an ending for the series?

I assume it's always supposed to be associated with Moriarty, even though Sherlock has known Jim was dead since Reichenbach.


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March 30, 2017 7:28 pm  #55


Re: Are you satisfied with TFP as an ending for the series?

Mary knew that if nothing else, it would certainly get Sherlock's attention!  And it did.
 

 

April 11, 2017 9:45 am  #56


Re: Are you satisfied with TFP as an ending for the series?

kgreen20 wrote:

This may have been their dream but I would have hoped for a different ending - if this should be the ending. And the reactions of many viewers and critics alike showed that they were not happy with it. 

As far as I'm concerned, that's reason enough for Moffat and Gatiss to bring out one final season before calling it quits on the show  Besides, on top of all that, so many are extremely unhappy with John's violence toward Sherlock on TLD.  I know of one fan who says that John is dead to her because of what he did, and because he didn't apologize or make it up to Sherlock afterward.  That's three times that John has gotten violent toward Sherlock on this TV series.  If nothing else, that particular scene indicates that John has a problem that needs resolving, possibly stemming from his childhood.  There needs to be an episode focusing on him, giving us his back story, and a chance to resolve his issues from his growing-up years and from his time in Afghanistan (plus, I should like to see it become John's turn to be in the hospital, fighting for his life, this time around!).  Another one-shot could be used for that, if another season cannot be produced anytime soon.

I may be the only member of this forum who would like very much to see that done, but surely there are other Sherlock fans out there who would like it, too!
 

I agree with you absolutely. We didn't get John's backstory to understand his violent outbursts. And I'm also really unhappy, he attacked Sherlock this way and never apologised for this on screen.
Generally I'm disappointed with TFP. There are so many plot holes and missed opportunities. And for me it lacked the spirit of earlier episodes - this wasn't Sherlock as i liked it.

 

April 11, 2017 12:01 pm  #57


Re: Are you satisfied with TFP as an ending for the series?

Same here. Although Sherlock and John seem quite close in TFP, I am not happy with Sherlock constantly being mistreated by others and never get as much as an apology. This goes for Mary's half-hearted last words as well as - and especially - for John. His behaviour in the morgue was inexcusable. But it seems Sherlock is the only one who is expected to apologise while others never have to. 
And for me the same goes for Mycroft. What he did to Eurus - and to Sherlock as well - is hard to swallow. And again - who is tormented by their sister? Sherlock, not Mycroft. This is a pattern I would very much like to see changed in another series or special. 
 

Last edited by SusiGo (April 11, 2017 12:01 pm)


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
 

April 11, 2017 12:57 pm  #58


Re: Are you satisfied with TFP as an ending for the series?

We do actually get such a change - Mummy Holmes saying Sherlock was "always the grown-up one". To be honest, I actually felt quite bad for Mycroft when she said that. Mycroft's choices may not always have been the right ones, but he always tried to do what he thought was right. 


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings
http://i.imgur.com/NzWTIDd.png

Team Hudders!
 
 

April 11, 2017 4:03 pm  #59


Re: Are you satisfied with TFP as an ending for the series?

But this is not very much of a "punishment", is it? Mummy's disapproval for a man of fifty? It is just that I feel - and everyone is free to feel differently - that some characters get away very easily with things and others do not. And, sorry to say, for me John is one of them. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
 

April 11, 2017 4:07 pm  #60


Re: Are you satisfied with TFP as an ending for the series?

I do see what you mean. I think that when it comes to John, it's very subtle. Very few people have suffered as much during the show as John has, especially in the later seasons. I do agree that I would love to see an on-screen apology. But we got something that was almost as strong - John showing vulnerability in front of Sherlock, and accepting his support. Considering where John comes from, that is huge. 

I have a feeling that was all the apology Sherlock needed. Which says a lot about the wisdom of Sherlock's character.

Last edited by Vhanja (April 11, 2017 4:07 pm)


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings
http://i.imgur.com/NzWTIDd.png

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