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March 23, 2017 11:25 am  #1


Are you satisfied with TFP as an ending for the series?

We still don’t if the show’s coming back (though I’m sure we will find out soon enough). However, let’s say it is over, are you ok with show ending things the way it did in this episode?
 
As a “Season Four finale”, I think it was very entertaining. An emotional roller-coaster ride as it got to the core nature of Sherlock but if it is the show’s last episode then I think it is a kind of lousy and messy way to go out. It did have flaws as there have been many who weren’t convinced by its plot (though to begin with the show was never supposed to be 100% realistic). It did have the feel and impact of a Hollywood thriller (with nods to horror movies like Saw and Silence of the Lambs). I always imagined the finale of the series to have been something totally different but Mofftiss don’t cater to what we want or dream about nor should they.
 
If there is going to be a fifth season in the not so distant future, then I’m looking forward to it. However, if it's the end then I will respect the decision but I will miss it very much. This has been a brilliant show even if it hasn’t always been perfect.
 

 

March 23, 2017 11:44 am  #2


Re: Are you satisfied with TFP as an ending for the series?

Good idea for a thread. And, no, I am not okay with it ending like this. (I am not okay with ending it at all, but that is just selfish me). 

Why? Because for me there too many inconsistencies, too many open questions, too many things that do not make sense. And, most of all, much of it did not feel like Sherlock to me, especially in TFP. As you said, we had lots of Silence of the Lambs, The Ring, Saw, Bond and other film quotes but I feel what we did not have was (or did not have enough of) was BBC Sherlock. I do not understand the writers' need for quoting all these other films when they have been so immensely successful in creating their own style. TV shows in many countries today are copying the show, are using visual and textual elements that have been created by Mofftiss and their team. They were the pioneers, the ones that showed others how to give the audience something new and unique. So why TFP? I am at a loss as to an answer, and the creators have not really answered the question themselves. 

To me, TFP does not feel like Sherlock nor like Sherlock Holmes. Not at all. There are some brilliant moments, no doubt, but in the end I am not happy with it. 

This may have been their dream but I would have hoped for a different ending - if this should be the ending. And the reactions of many viewers and critics alike showed that they were not happy with it. So if Mofftiss fulfilled their dream, fine. I wonder if they are satisfied. The silence by about everyone associated with the show including the BBC might be a hint. 

Last edited by SusiGo (March 23, 2017 11:45 am)


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
 

March 23, 2017 2:34 pm  #3


Re: Are you satisfied with TFP as an ending for the series?

I am very much happy with the ending. If they announced that this would be it for the show, I would be left feeling satisfied. In my opinion they accomplished what they said they had done - create an origin story for Sherlock Holmes. I love the idea, I think it's original (in the terms of Sherlock Holmes), and well executed.

It showed Sherlock's journey from trying to have a sosiopath mask and a cold, detached machine persona as an ideal to him growing into understanding the importance of caring and allowing himself to be cared for - the one feature that makes him stronger than Mycroft and Eurus, even though the two are smarter than him.

I am also very happy with John's evovlement throughout the show, he's gotten more development and onscreen time than I thought we ever would have, and has turned into a nuanced, flawed and mulit-layered character instead of just a two-dimensional sidekick who's only feature is to look dumb so that Sherlock can look smart.

Of course they have made decisions I wouldn't have made, but overall, I am very happy with the ending.


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March 23, 2017 6:09 pm  #4


Re: Are you satisfied with TFP as an ending for the series?

This may have been their dream but I would have hoped for a different ending - if this should be the ending. And the reactions of many viewers and critics alike showed that they were not happy with it. 

As far as I'm concerned, that's reason enough for Moffat and Gatiss to bring out one final season before calling it quits on the show  Besides, on top of all that, so many are extremely unhappy with John's violence toward Sherlock on TLD.  I know of one fan who says that John is dead to her because of what he did, and because he didn't apologize or make it up to Sherlock afterward.  That's three times that John has gotten violent toward Sherlock on this TV series.  If nothing else, that particular scene indicates that John has a problem that needs resolving, possibly stemming from his childhood.  There needs to be an episode focusing on him, giving us his back story, and a chance to resolve his issues from his growing-up years and from his time in Afghanistan (plus, I should like to see it become John's turn to be in the hospital, fighting for his life, this time around!).  Another one-shot could be used for that, if another season cannot be produced anytime soon.

I may be the only member of this forum who would like very much to see that done, but surely there are other Sherlock fans out there who would like it, too!
 

Last edited by kgreen20 (March 23, 2017 6:13 pm)

 

March 23, 2017 6:22 pm  #5


Re: Are you satisfied with TFP as an ending for the series?

Do we mean an ending for the series or show?
I loved it as the end of the series.
I hope it isn't the end of the show, but fear it might be.
I love Eurus as a new character and would like to see so much more of her.


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March 23, 2017 8:27 pm  #6


Re: Are you satisfied with TFP as an ending for the series?

SusiGo wrote:

To me, TFP does not feel like Sherlock nor like Sherlock Holmes. Not at all. There are some brilliant moments, no doubt, but in the end I am not happy with it. 

This may have been their dream but I would have hoped for a different ending - if this should be the ending. And the reactions of many viewers and critics alike showed that they were not happy with it. So if Mofftiss fulfilled their dream, fine. I wonder if they are satisfied. The silence by about everyone associated with the show including the BBC might be a hint. 

I can't but entirely agree with you here though I do confess I've been none too happy with the choices they've made from the beginning of S3. The restaurant scene in TEH was where everything went awry imo. Of course I'd expected John to be angry when Sherlock popped out of a cake without a prior announcement. But I'd expected that anger to last for half an hour perhaps, after which John would do Sherlock at least the courtesy of listening to him. This is the man that saved John from committing suicide after all. The idea of Mary bringing them together after their friendship was cemented so quickly in the first two series still feels off to me.

Also, it may not be a detective show but it's main protagonist is a detective (or that's the way it was in S1 and S2) so one would expect to see him at work... every once in a while.

This guy pretty well sums up my feelings on S4 (and S3) in the most hilarious way. And he's actually very kind towards the writers and Mary. He simply is as baffled as I am and lots and lots of fans are. The overall silence from both the BBC, as pointed out by Susi, and a lot of die-hard fans who aren't part of the TJLC-crowd is rather telling.

https://youtu.be/X30Wi6KWeSE

 

March 23, 2017 8:31 pm  #7


Re: Are you satisfied with TFP as an ending for the series?

Telling in what way?
The only reason silence concerns me at all, is that it means no news on any further episodes...but then I wouldn't really expect to hear any news, for a few years at least...if at all.


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March 23, 2017 8:33 pm  #8


Re: Are you satisfied with TFP as an ending for the series?

I just want to chime in and say that there are also a lot of fans that are happy with S4. Not to take away from those who aren't, but sometimes I get the feeling this is worded as if more or less the entire fandom dislikes the direction the series has taken, and that isn't really true. 


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn74/Tabris93/Sig_zpsbc318d59.jpg

Team Hudders!
 
 

March 23, 2017 8:37 pm  #9


Re: Are you satisfied with TFP as an ending for the series?

And also a strange line of argument on a fan site for the show.
I assume most of us are here because we love the show....still love the show.
I know some people only like Canon, some people only like BBC Sherlock, or at least haven't read Canon, some people prefer Elementary etc...but we love BBC Sherlock.
I do feel Mark and Steven might have done S4 differently, if they didn't feel they had to write an ending.
But I did love the ending they wrote.


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March 23, 2017 8:41 pm  #10


Re: Are you satisfied with TFP as an ending for the series?

I'm very happy for both you, Vhanja and besley, for being happy with S4. I agree with you you're not alone in this but I remember after S1 and S2 and S3 first aired there was such a happy buzz on the internet and that's missing now. I couldn't actually share in the S3 happiness but it was a positive feeling all the same and when TAB aired I got my hopes up that S3 would prove but a minor hitch in the fabric. 

Meanwhile I do envy you a bit for I'd so hoped to adore S4 as much as I still do adore S1 and S2.

 

March 23, 2017 8:45 pm  #11


Re: Are you satisfied with TFP as an ending for the series?

I am interested in why some people have become disillusioned...is it just Johnlockers or Mary haters?  I really don't know.
Mary was used a lot.  That was obviously  a very deliberate decision upon Mark and Steven's parts. 
It worked for me.
I thought she was a strong, female character and I really liked her.
Did others not like Eurus?  
I can't get enough of her.


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March 23, 2017 8:58 pm  #12


Re: Are you satisfied with TFP as an ending for the series?

besleybean wrote:

I am interested in why some people have become disillusioned...is it just Johnlockers or Mary haters?  I really don't know.
...
Did others not like Eurus?  
I can't get enough of her.

Well, I'm definitely not a Johnlocker. And I was prepared to like Mary but she soon had me gritting my teeth in annoyance. The series was named Sherlock for a reason and it's made right clear from ASiP that he's the cleverest bloke in the room, unless Mycroft is also in the room. Mary continually besting Sherlock and Mycroft at their own game didn't endear her to me. Not because I'm some weird misogynist - I love ASiB and adore Irene (literally) beating Sherlock - but because I simply can't see the point in debasing the characters Moffat and Gatiss had so lovingly created in S1 and S2.

And I can't see the point of Eurus either. Her character repels me and I don't like the notion that Moriarty - the Napoleon of crime after all - was nothing but her errand boy.

But like I said. I'll always be grateful for S1 and S2 for that easily ranks amongst the most beautiful, innovative and well-written and wonderfully acted television ever made.

 

March 23, 2017 9:02 pm  #13


Re: Are you satisfied with TFP as an ending for the series?

I am so sorry you feel let down.
For me all of the series are very different, but I loved them all and if we get no more, I was happy with the ending.


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March 23, 2017 9:21 pm  #14


Re: Are you satisfied with TFP as an ending for the series?

SusiGo wrote:

The silence by about everyone associated with the show including the BBC might be a hint. 

I'm new-ish, so what's actually expected from the BBC at this point?
I seem to remember there was that TV shows fair a couple of weeks ago where BBC made Sherlocks in hats dance on stage... Is it the kind of message we are talking about?

As for the raised question... My brain is satisfied with TFP as the ending, my heart isn't.
I remember Stargate SG-1's ending - the team goes on adventuring together after having mastered an impossible situation. This is what a show finale about a team is supposed to look like in my opinion, so TFP delivered on this account.
On the other hand, all the plot holes make my chest ache. I have a feeling that the show in our heads was much smarter than the one we got shown. Still don't know what to think about that.


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March 23, 2017 9:26 pm  #15


Re: Are you satisfied with TFP as an ending for the series?

Yes there is no doubt there is a lot of talent on this forum and in the fandom who could write great TV shows...
What we got is Mark and Steven's vision and I bought into it.
I didn't agree with them in all of their choices, but I understood why they did things and accepted it.
I was extremely worried about not liking TFP, but I left the cinema if not a happy bunny- certainly a satisfied one.


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March 23, 2017 9:30 pm  #16


Re: Are you satisfied with TFP as an ending for the series?

I know, I know, everyone's a critic, but at least some of the plot holes /characterisation burps were easily avoidable http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/errr.png


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"The posh boy loves the dominatrix." http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/love.gif Context matters.
 

March 23, 2017 9:34 pm  #17


Re: Are you satisfied with TFP as an ending for the series?

Well if there were plot holes...they obviously didn't bother me!
In the beginning we were given this brilliant, enigmatic but aloof detective.
By the end, we were given his history, he was made more human and we left him still on his adventures with his trusty sidekick...
In the end that was all that was ever important to me.


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March 23, 2017 10:29 pm  #18


Re: Are you satisfied with TFP as an ending for the series?

I love the show. I still do. But I think one may still criticise things one loves. 

Mary is indeed one thing I am having difficulties with. They explicitly called it the Sherlock and John show and nearly the whole of TST focussed on Mary and her back story. Then she was present as a hallucination of John/part of his self or whatever one may call it for a further episode. They gave her the cinema intro to TFP, the whole 15 minutes, and she had the last word at the end. For me this is too much and it has nothing to do with Johnlock. IMO it moved the focus away from the Sherlock and John team. If you are happy and satisfied with this, good for you. If people are not, they should be able to voice their opinion.

Sian Brooke was brilliant as Eurus. But to make her the key to Sherlock's character is difficult in my opinion. This is just how I feel about her.  


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
 

March 24, 2017 6:31 am  #19


Re: Are you satisfied with TFP as an ending for the series?

I am having difficulty understanding why, Susi.
I thought Mycroft said it very well: the whole of Sherlock's life had been shaped by his memory of Eurus.
Traumatised by her killing of his best friend, he subconsciously shut her out of his memory bank and reconstructed Victor as Redbeard...as I'd already guessed the 'Rainman' theme, this wasn't such a big leap for me.
As a result, Sherlock grows emotionally stunted, though can never completely hide his feelings for those he truly cares for...well, John, in his case.
In fact it's John who first kicks in the humanisation of Sherlock.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

March 24, 2017 7:42 am  #20


Re: Are you satisfied with TFP as an ending for the series?

I have problems with the Eurus story as a whole. Who in the late 20th century puts away a five year old child who would be in need of therapy? Parents never again mentioning their daughter, having no pictures of her, just trusting that her brother has completely forgotten her? If Mycroft had contact with her, he would have been reprogrammed as well since she seemed to have done so to the whole of Sherrinford. What about her constant travels, leaving the island just like that, dressing up somewhere, obtaining a drone, dismantling glass panes, transporting all of them to Musgrave Hall at a moment's instance. And these are just some points.

Eurus is a sort of fantasy character with supernatural skills. She has more of a horror movie or Marvel villain whereas all other characters have been quite close to real life. Even Sherlock is not a magician. Eurus, however, is like someone from another world. And to me this simply does not fit in the universe created by Mofftiss. She is more Doctor Who than Sherlock. And to make her the solution for everything - by the way, we never learn why Sherlock does not have sex - is just not satisfactory to me.


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
 

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