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January 20, 2017 12:10 pm  #41


Re: What is real in TFP?

I just found a wonderful solution to the episode online.... http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/lol.png


http://skulls-and-tea.tumblr.com/post/155980281696/johnlocklives-valeria2067-gardnerhill


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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

http://49.media.tumblr.com/eb0e156f55878fcd6f89dcf91ae89811/tumblr_o0eyyzrphE1spvwrzo2_1280.gif
 

January 20, 2017 2:36 pm  #42


Re: What is real in TFP?

Solar,
I agree. TAB was MP, things didn't add up there from the very beginning but we got a resolution at some point of the same episode.

nakahara,
that would be a very, very sad story http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/sad.png


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"The posh boy loves the dominatrix." http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/love.gif Context matters.
 

January 20, 2017 4:51 pm  #43


Re: What is real in TFP?

Yeah, I think it's legit to discuss, what is real. Because 1) I can understand the need to and 2) it is fun nontheless.

I was one of the persons who had great fun analyzing the show and especially TAB and HLV for MP scenes. Back then I said, I would like it if in season 4 we learn that Sherlock was in his MP (if done cleverly and convincingly). But I also said that I wouldn't be surprised at all, if everything was real (well, apart from most of TAB). And I already had the feeling that I had to accept everything that happened pretty soon, somewhere when being halfway through T6T...

I think now there is no doubt left, that it was all real. Because what SolarSystem said, is quite right, I fear:

SolarSystem wrote:

The two fundamental questions to me are the WHY and the WHEN.

Why would Mofftiss feel the need to tell their story in this particular way? They said that it's a show about a detective, okay. But why would they feel the need to tell the story (or parts of it) in Sherlock's mind? What would be the advantage of that? And furthermore: Why would they do this in such a cryptic way? Wouldn't they want to have the whole audience, fans and casual viewers, on board for the ride? Wouldn't they want everyone to get it? What's the use if a large part of the audience doesn't even get it and just thinks that something is weird and feels a bit off? Wouldn't there be more obvious hints? Or am I supposed to believe that to Mofftiss it's okay if some people get it (and not even immediately but only after lots and lots of metas have been written) and a large part of the audience just thinks that things don't really make sense.
I am willing to believe that something like the laptop scene in TSoT is indeed MP and that it's okay for the writers that not everyone understands what's going on in that particular scene. But seriously, doing MP on such a huge scale since HLV (or whenever this is supposed to have started) without giving more accessible hints and running the risk of 90 % of the audience not understanding it... I simply don't believe it. It would be too clever and too stupid both at the same time.

And the WHEN: When exactly did we enter Sherlock's MP and when can we expect to get the resolution? In five years maybe, if we do indeed get more episodes? Or maybe never? Even if it would be in five years, what kind of story-telling is that? Again, the casual viewer will long have forgotten about the details in TFP or even HLV. Or did we already get the resolution in TFP and most of us have just missed it, again?

I totally understand the need to understand what we have seen and to make sense of the inconsistencies. And it's a pretty deflating thought that most of it might indeed be due to continuity or other errors. But to me MP is not the answer. Mofftiss are pretty amazing writers, but maybe only most of the time and not always. I'm not even saying that they wrote themselves into a corner, I'm just saying that if they had given us three or more episodes in Sherlock's mind, then they would also have given us more distinct clues. 
 

 

Last edited by Rache (January 20, 2017 5:02 pm)


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Breathing is boring!

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January 20, 2017 6:55 pm  #44


Re: What is real in TFP?

I think this review sums it up perfectly:

"We've entered the world of comic book superhero soap opera mythology where John and Sherlock jump through second story windows microseconds ahead of a devastating bomb blast and land in a busy metropolitan street without a scratch and left the Doylean realm of human beings.

Sherlock Holmes is widely recognized as having said "When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."  Well, the series was filled with improbabilities, which made it impossible to like."

http://www.ihearofsherlock.com/2017/01/sherlock-series-4-improbable-truth.html


O, learn to read what silent love hath writ:
To hear with eyes belongs to love’s fine wit.
(Shakespeare, Sonnet 23) 
 

January 20, 2017 7:42 pm  #45


Re: What is real in TFP?

nakahara wrote:

I just found a wonderful solution to the episode online.... http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/lol.png


http://skulls-and-tea.tumblr.com/post/155980281696/johnlocklives-valeria2067-gardnerhill

I love Jane Eyre, and can't help but think of it whenever a mad relative gets locked away in other fiction! 
 

 

January 20, 2017 7:45 pm  #46


Re: What is real in TFP?

SolarSystem wrote:

I totally understand the need to understand what we have seen and to make sense of the inconsistencies. And it's a pretty deflating thought that most of it might indeed be due to continuity or other errors. But to me MP is not the answer. Mofftiss are pretty amazing writers, but maybe only most of the time and not always. I'm not even saying that they wrote themselves into a corner, I'm just saying that if they had given us three or more episodes in Sherlock's mind, then they would also have given us more distinct clues. 
 

I agree.  The clues in TAB were very clear.  Even in TFP itself, the little girl on the plane is explicitly revealed to be imaginary. 

I also think some might not be continuity errors as such, but changes of style and so on.  For instance, John's chair could be a call back to TAB rather than a mistake.   The hairstyle changes from TAB to TST, are just a different look for 2017 Sherlock, I think. 
 

 

January 20, 2017 7:49 pm  #47


Re: What is real in TFP?

Liberty wrote:

The hairstyle changes from TAB to TST, are just a different look for 2017 Sherlock, I think.

Hairstyle changes from TAB to T6T...? Could you please enlighten me? Of course there are changes in their hair style, the episodes take place in completely different centuries after all...? Are people really talking about this?


___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?"
http://picload.org/image/wcodogr/jungssignatur.jpg

"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 

January 20, 2017 8:07 pm  #48


Re: What is real in TFP?

SolarSystem wrote:

Liberty wrote:

The hairstyle changes from TAB to TST, are just a different look for 2017 Sherlock, I think.

Hairstyle changes from TAB to T6T...? Could you please enlighten me? Of course there are changes in their hair style, the episodes take place in completely different centuries after all...? Are people really talking about this?

I think she meant the plane scenes from TAB.
You know, Mary grew like 5 inches of curly hair overnight between beeing very pregnant in TAb and still being very pregnant in TST.

Last edited by ewige (January 20, 2017 8:07 pm)


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"The posh boy loves the dominatrix." http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/love.gif Context matters.
 

January 20, 2017 8:18 pm  #49


Re: What is real in TFP?

I am starting to think it was maybe Johns drugged death dream in the way TAB was Sherlocks.
We did see him shot with a gun and the last thing he heard was did you ever imagine Sherlock had a secret sister and we know he is a horror fan from the Omen v Exorcist conversation.


"Man may not be degraded  to being a machine by being denied to be a ghost in the machine."
It's just transport. The virus in the hard drive . However impossible .Must be the truth.
 

January 20, 2017 8:19 pm  #50


Re: What is real in TFP?

Yes, thanks, Ewige, I meant modern day TAB!  I could have been clearer!

 

January 20, 2017 8:53 pm  #51


Re: What is real in TFP?

Again this is something a casual viewer wouldn't notice. So it's not very clever both ways: For us fans it's irritating if it's supposed to be real, for the casual viewer it's not obvious enough if it's supposed to be not real.


___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?"
http://picload.org/image/wcodogr/jungssignatur.jpg

"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 

January 20, 2017 9:31 pm  #52


Re: What is real in TFP?

Mothonthemantel wrote:

I am starting to think it was maybe Johns drugged death dream in the way TAB was Sherlocks.
We did see him shot with a gun and the last thing he heard was did you ever imagine Sherlock had a secret sister and we know he is a horror fan from the Omen v Exorcist conversation.

Not to mention John is a James Bond fan as well...

I feel that the three episodes of Series 4 were all told from different people's perspectives and none of them were 100% real. If (big if) there is a fourth episode, then the most logical plot would be an account of the real sequence of events that occurred throughout the previous three episodes.


 

 

January 20, 2017 9:34 pm  #53


Re: What is real in TFP?

Oh it all felt very real to me and I do not subscribe to the fourth episode theory.
Well, the series i s over now.


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January 20, 2017 9:37 pm  #54


Re: What is real in TFP?

When would they have the time to shoot one more episode? O.o
And if they did, they would promote the hell out of it.
Besides, TFP is very final in my eyes. Like, "forever" final, not just "this season" final.


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"The posh boy loves the dominatrix." http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/love.gif Context matters.
 

January 20, 2017 9:38 pm  #55


Re: What is real in TFP?

I think so, too.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

January 20, 2017 10:04 pm  #56


Re: What is real in TFP?

TheOtherOne wrote:

Mothonthemantel wrote:

I am starting to think it was maybe Johns drugged death dream in the way TAB was Sherlocks.
We did see him shot with a gun and the last thing he heard was did you ever imagine Sherlock had a secret sister and we know he is a horror fan from the Omen v Exorcist conversation.

Not to mention John is a James Bond fan as well...

I feel that the three episodes of Series 4 were all told from different people's perspectives and none of them were 100% real. If (big if) there is a fourth episode, then the most logical plot would be an account of the real sequence of events that occurred throughout the previous three episodes.


 

I don't know anything about a 4th episode , but I love you was also the code word Moneypenny gave Bond so he wouldn't forget it.
 


"Man may not be degraded  to being a machine by being denied to be a ghost in the machine."
It's just transport. The virus in the hard drive . However impossible .Must be the truth.
 

January 20, 2017 10:05 pm  #57


Re: What is real in TFP?

But they wouldn't have had to shoot a whole separate episode. If the plot of the fourth one is to recount the *real* sequence of events throughout the previous three, then all they would have needed to do was shoot additional scenes *thoughout all three episodes*. In fact, if you go through the setlock diaries, it is clear there are complete scenes filmed throughout the whole summer that we never saw in the three episodes that have aired.

Right now we are on the total count of 13 episodes of Sherlock. I personally don't buy into all of the (often far fetched) conspiracy theories... but I believe there will be a 14th episode of Sherlock for a slightly different reason.

Basil Rathbone and Nigel Bruce made 14 films of Sherlock Holmes in the 40s. We all know by now this is by far Gatiss and Moffat's favourite series of Sherlock Holmes. They are real fanboys of this series... So it is almost illogical to believe they would just stop at 13 and not do a 14th episode. To them, 14 episodes which mimic Rathbone/ Bruce would probably be (their) wish fulfilment.

 

 

January 20, 2017 10:08 pm  #58


Re: What is real in TFP?

They didn't want to stop...it's been forced upon them.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

January 20, 2017 10:15 pm  #59


Re: What is real in TFP?

besleybean wrote:

They didn't want to stop...it's been forced upon them.

Why do you think so?

 


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"The posh boy loves the dominatrix." http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/love.gif Context matters.
 

January 20, 2017 10:19 pm  #60


Re: What is real in TFP?

Because I think Benedict and Martin are unavailable.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

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