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July 5, 2017 1:14 pm  #221


Re: Still unexplained secrets?

Meretricious wrote:

Anyway, that's one possible explanation. I don't think Moffat and Gatiss are the sorts of writer's who worry about explaining all the details, and getting into discussions in the aftermath of TFP about the police searching for Victor etc. would have seemed unnecessary to them. Perhaps they didn't have this particular scenario in mind, but it works for me http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/happy.png

 

In Mycroft´s story, it is obvious there were no repercussions for Eurus on behalf of "Drowned Redbeard". She was only isolated in Sherrinford later, after she tried to burn the house and to hurt Sherlock.

Now, maybe the story in which one child drowns another and nobody cares about the fact works for someone, but for me, it is too unbelievable to be considered real....
 


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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

http://49.media.tumblr.com/eb0e156f55878fcd6f89dcf91ae89811/tumblr_o0eyyzrphE1spvwrzo2_1280.gif
 

July 5, 2017 1:16 pm  #222


Re: Still unexplained secrets?

Liberty wrote:

Sherlock remembers his friend and he names him before Eurus does: I think he really is meant to have existed! 
 

Eurus was Sherlock´s sister and quite obssessed with him, so of course she would know the name of his imaginary friend.... that´s no proof Victor really existed somewhere else outside Sherlock´s mind.


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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

http://49.media.tumblr.com/eb0e156f55878fcd6f89dcf91ae89811/tumblr_o0eyyzrphE1spvwrzo2_1280.gif
 

July 5, 2017 1:23 pm  #223


Re: Still unexplained secrets?

It seemed to be fairly immediately after Victor's disappearance that the fire occurred.
I think people do care about Victor: as I said before, obviously his family do.  We are just not shown their side of the story. 
Possibly the Holmes chose not to tell Mr and Mrs Trevor what actually happened: possibly they were told. "oh he told us he was going home.  We waved him off and never saw him again." I don't know and I honestly don't care.
Eurus is a psychopath and was as a child.  She allowed another child to die, that for me is the pertinent information.
Sherlock also cared and because he couldn't deal with the loss of Victor, he invented the dog as protective amnesia.
Mr and Mrs Holmes did care, as we hear them shriek:  she won't tell us where he is.
I agree in the real world, the situation would and should have been dealt with differently.
Having said that, presumably a police search was mounted: the only bit the police wouldn't have been told was that Eurus knew where Victor was.
 Personally I don't need to be shown images of police conducting a finger tip search...I can imagine that for myself.
Incidentally, this isn't real: it's a TV show. My favourite show and it works for me and other fans, too.
It has to be a child and not a dog, for the emotional impact:  John recognises this and states so in his :  "a child doesn't get locked up over a missing dog", line.
EDIT:  I've also just remembered, the Holmes actually helped in the search for Victor: "We looked everywhere, but couldn't find him."
 

Last edited by besleybean (July 5, 2017 1:47 pm)


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July 5, 2017 1:49 pm  #224


Re: Still unexplained secrets?

besleybean wrote:

I think people do care about Victor: as I said before, obviously his family do.  We are just not shown their side of the story. 

From what it´s shown within the story, Victor has no parents that would search from him - we never hear about anyone like that.

besleybean wrote:

Possibly the Holmes chose not to tell Mr and Mrs Trevor what actually happened: possibly they were told. "oh he told us he was going home.  We waved him off and never saw him again." 

I can´t imagine any parents that would be content with that. The child is not a forgotten jumper, for God´s sake!

For me, this is one more proof that "Victor" is actually a dog.

besleybean wrote:

Incidentally, this isn't real: it's a TV show. My favourite show and it works for me and other fans, too.

Nobody was claiming we are discussing the real life here. Of course this is a TV show - and in the TV show it can easily happen that some things presented on screen take place only inside character´s head. It was like this in TAB, it could be the possible explanation for TFP absurdity as well...

besleybean wrote:

It has to be a child and not a dog, for the emotional impact:  John recognises this and states so in his :  "a child doesn't get locked up over a missing dog", line.
 

Eurus was locked for trying to hurt/kill Sherlock and for a dangerous case of arson. Nothing of this had anything to do with Victor.


-----------------------------------

I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

http://49.media.tumblr.com/eb0e156f55878fcd6f89dcf91ae89811/tumblr_o0eyyzrphE1spvwrzo2_1280.gif
 

July 5, 2017 1:55 pm  #225


Re: Still unexplained secrets?

Well perhaps if the police had known she was guilty, it would have been a different story.


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July 5, 2017 3:18 pm  #226


Re: Still unexplained secrets?

Most of TAB was in Sherlock's head, but that was made quite clear, I think.  Whereas we've been told that Victor was Sherlock's childhood friend, and not actually been given anything to discount it.  If the big reveal was that Eurus was deceiving Sherlock and Victor didn't exist, then I think that would have to be revealed within TFP.  Especially as S5 might be years later, if at all.
 

 

July 5, 2017 8:19 pm  #227


Re: Still unexplained secrets?

I agree that she was.
 

 

July 5, 2017 8:22 pm  #228


Re: Still unexplained secrets?

You think Eurus was deceiving Sherlock?


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July 5, 2017 9:30 pm  #229


Re: Still unexplained secrets?

Liberty wrote:

Most of TAB was in Sherlock's head, but that was made quite clear, I think.  Whereas we've been told that Victor was Sherlock's childhood friend, and not actually been given anything to discount it.  If the big reveal was that Eurus was deceiving Sherlock and Victor didn't exist, then I think that would have to be revealed within TFP.  Especially as S5 might be years later, if at all.
 

Well, for me, the whole TFP looks very unreal, from the very first scene in Mycroft´s house. TAB has nothing on it.

It was kinda revealed when Eurus was introduced as the mind-manipulator to us.

Also, I don´t think Mofftiss really care for settling some plot points for the fans at the end of any series. Look how they let fans hanging with the pool scene at the end of S1, how they didn´t explain Reichenbach in TEH, etc. etc.
 


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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

http://49.media.tumblr.com/eb0e156f55878fcd6f89dcf91ae89811/tumblr_o0eyyzrphE1spvwrzo2_1280.gif
 

July 5, 2017 9:33 pm  #230


Re: Still unexplained secrets?

S 1 was a bit different, because they didn't know if they were going to get an S 2.
They over explained Reichenbach and I was one of those who didn't care how they did it! I just wanted the Reunion.


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July 5, 2017 9:42 pm  #231


Re: Still unexplained secrets?

besleybean wrote:

S 1 was a bit different, because they didn't know if they were going to get an S 2.

That exactly was my point. They did not know if they ever get series 2, they still left the pool scene hanging without explanation.


-----------------------------------

I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

http://49.media.tumblr.com/eb0e156f55878fcd6f89dcf91ae89811/tumblr_o0eyyzrphE1spvwrzo2_1280.gif
 

July 5, 2017 9:44 pm  #232


Re: Still unexplained secrets?

Well I think they decided to do just what they did with S 4: just go for it.
In both cases, not knowing if they would ever do anymore again.


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July 6, 2017 5:55 am  #233


Re: Still unexplained secrets?

I think the difference is that S1 was left obviously hanging, whereas S4 seemed to be all tied up.   You'd expect people at the end of S1 to be asking "how are they going to get out of that one?", and you'd hopefully expect that to be resolved in S2 (as it was).   However, whether Redbeard was a boy or a dog, isn't left hanging: it was resolved in S4 that he was a boy.   They could go back to that same story in S5 and explain that he was a dog, but as it stands, I don't think it's something that needs to be resolved - it has been resolved within the story.  It doesn't need to be explained, as it stands. 

I could say that Eurus killed Sherlock and the rest of the episode is his dying dream, and that might be a fair interpretation, but it's very unlikely, given that they haven't left that hanging - that explanation isn't needed. 

 

 

July 6, 2017 7:41 am  #234


Re: Still unexplained secrets?

I think seeing the boys at Rathbone Place at the end, clearly indicates that they are carrying on with the crime solving work, whether or not we ever get to join them again.


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July 15, 2017 4:30 pm  #235


Re: Still unexplained secrets?

I have another question about this episode:

http://gosherlocked.tumblr.com/post/163020507461/the-eurus-image


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
 

July 15, 2017 4:41 pm  #236


Re: Still unexplained secrets?

(Not a popular response of mine, I know): but possibly the team just messing with us?


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

July 15, 2017 4:46 pm  #237


Re: Still unexplained secrets?

I suppose the memory of Eurus is still there in his subconscious: he just doesn't recognise it.   However, I'm not sure the dress and the hair are that similar (the hair on the wig is much longer).   Maybe typical for a little girl from that era.   Bunches are fairly archetypically a little girl's hairstyle.  People always seem to wear them up when dressing up as schoolgirls for fancy dress! 

(Also, maybe the disguise was a little bit like Eurus for the benefit of us, the audience).

Last edited by Liberty (July 15, 2017 5:12 pm)

 

July 15, 2017 4:49 pm  #238


Re: Still unexplained secrets?

BBC cuts?  All made from the same batch?!


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November 27, 2017 8:34 am  #239


Re: Still unexplained secrets?

I think there is one big issue that has not been sufficiently explained or addressed: the relationship between Sherlock and Mycroft. From the very beginning there have been hints to a feud, to resentment, to one of them upsetting their mother, but so far this difficult relationship has not been explained. And, no, Eurus is not an explanation for why they have behaved the way they did since ASiP. This is something I would really like to know and which would leave me very dissatisfied if it was not addressed in the future. 
 


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
 

November 27, 2017 10:24 am  #240


Re: Still unexplained secrets?

I agree, I would love to learn more about this. Where does his resentment come from? 


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