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January 17, 2017 7:02 pm  #41


Re: Mycroft in TFP

And presumably he only did it because he thought it was for the best.  He had nothing personally to gain from it.

 

January 17, 2017 7:03 pm  #42


Re: Mycroft in TFP

I think Mummy realises this eventually...


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January 17, 2017 7:04 pm  #43


Re: Mycroft in TFP

Yes, I think so too.  And holds his hand. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/happy.png

     Thread Starter
 

January 17, 2017 9:56 pm  #44


Re: Mycroft in TFP

I just noticed I forgot to mention at least two further moments in my earlier post: 

10. Mycroft after the scare Sherlock and John gave him in the beginning: "Dr. Watson, why did he do that to me, that was insane!" So honest for once, with his iceman bravado gone and really not understanding how his brother could torture him like this. 

11. Sherlock: "The east wind is coming, Sherlock. You used that to scare me." Mycroft (sad and almost tenderly): "No." And you can tell just by this one, short word that it's true, that he's always had Sherlock's best interest in mind and that he's sad his brother could even think that little of him. 

Last edited by Kae Em (January 17, 2017 9:56 pm)

 

January 17, 2017 10:57 pm  #45


Re: Mycroft in TFP

besleybean wrote:

And Mycroft always blames himself, like when he tells John to apologise to Sherlock in HLV and then for giving Euros Moriarty...though I suppose for the last one, it kind of was him.
But he feels so guilty about deceiving his parents...what a weight that must have been for him to carry, for all those years.

Completely. I just can't stop thinking about it (the weight it must have been) and of how heartbreaking it is to the point I had to remind myself Mycroft didn't exist for real this morning http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/lol.png
​ because it tortures me so much...

​And I was also thinking of that scene in TRF. When he let John lecture him about Moriarty (I don't have the exact words in mind, but something like "You gave him the perfect ammunitions" etc. referring to Mycroft giving information about Sherlock's childhood). He looks so guilty and so sad in that scene. Then we realised in TEH that it was all part of a plan and that either Mycroft was simply sad because of the whole situation (I think --not 100% sure, would have to Watch TRF again-- he knew by that time that Sherlock would have to fake his death --and then go on exile--, that it would be dangerous, that he would be hell for both Sherlock and John, that it would upset the parents --even if he was going to tell them it was a fake suicide-- etc) or that he was just acting (and was very good at it).

​I think the whole scene now takes a whole new meaning. He felt genuinely guilty and sad in that scene, because he knew nothing would have happened if he hadn't let Moriarty anywhere near Eurus. And he probably knew that he would be upset too, because even if I'm sure he kept an eye on Sherlock during his exile, I'm not sure they could communicate easily: he must have missed Sherlock, must have been so worried that his memories came back without being able to tell him trigger works and check on his mental state...)

​"I'm sorry. Tell him, would you?" http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/depressed.png
​ (at that moment, only Mycroft could know what exactly he was sorry for. Sherlock didn't need him to apologize for feeding Moriarty with information about him since it was part of a plan)

He was genuinely sorry.

​He must have felt so bad at that time...

​And most of his life actually. 

What a burden. What a terrible life.

​He must have been bullied as a child (due to his weight)

​He had to witness his little brother being destroyed and traumatised (by Victor's death) and his little sister becoming a murderer at a very young age!

he later had to make his own sister "disappear" and lie to their parents

he had been constantly (in his own words! ;) ) worried about Sherlock, fearing he might remember the existence of Eurus and also Victor's death

he had to find him in dark alleys and drug dens and fear for his life

​He had to help him fake his death

​He must have feared that Sherlock found his death in Eastern europe

​He had to watch him being tortured (and contrary to Sherlock, I really don't think he enjoyed it, quite the contrary! It must have been hell for him but he didn't intervene sooner or it would have risked both his and Sherlock's life, he had no choice I think)

he had to let Sherlock think low of him (because Sherlock doesn't understand why he is so overprotective and all), same with John (who considered him responsible for sherlock's "death") and with the Holmes parents ("he must be very limited then")

he had to lie about Mary (as he knew who she really was) and probably felt guilty about it later (if he had told Sherlock, Sherlock wouldn't have been shot)

​He had to witness deaths (at Sherrinford) which I'm sure he blames himself for (the guy who killed himself and whose wife was killed told him something like Eurus had never been the same since he gave her moriarty as a Christmas present)

​And I don't even mention the heavy responsability his job is!!!!

​And yet, he was ready to die and have Sherlock (and John) think low about him again (Brotherly love at its best! He loves Sherlock, it must break his heart to have him think low of him, and yet he was willing to leave, knowing perfectly that his last words were horrible and that Sherlock would have hated him for them --if he had believed them, that is). Because he knew that John's death would actually destroy Sherlock and he just don't want that to happen and be there to witness it.

​How can you not love him and feel so bad for him after all that??!! http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/depressed.png
http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/love.png


​And he had no one to confide in (well, I don't know how much Lady Smallwood knows about Eurus but he couldn't tell her about everything I'm sure)




 

Last edited by Punch me in the face (January 17, 2017 11:50 pm)


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Just like old times...


http://i.imgur.com/lEZJjZh.jpg?1
 
 

January 17, 2017 11:36 pm  #46


Re: Mycroft in TFP

Punch me in the face wrote:

​And yet, he was ready to die and having Sherlock (and John) think low about him again (Brotherly love at its best! He loves Sherlock, it must break his heart to have him thinking low of him, and yet he was willing to leave, knowing perfectly that his last words were horrible and that Sherlock would have hated him for them --if he had believed them, that is). Because he knew that John's death would actually destroy Sherlock and he just don't want that to happen and be there to witness him.

​How can you not love him and feel so bad for him after all that??!! http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/depressed.png
http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/love.png


​And he had no one to confide in.
 

So beautifully written I had a tear in my eye after reading it. 
 

 

January 17, 2017 11:57 pm  #47


Re: Mycroft in TFP

Awww... well, thank you Kae http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/happy.png
​ (and sorry for all the mistakes! I've corrected a couple of them)

​Mycroft has always inspired me... http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/love.png


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Just like old times...


http://i.imgur.com/lEZJjZh.jpg?1
 
 

January 18, 2017 12:11 am  #48


Re: Mycroft in TFP

Aw, Punch me in the face, it's so beautifully written. I see you love Mycroft's character very much. I always liked him, but after TFP I'm very fond of Mycroft.http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/happy.png


Sherlock Holmes: I've disappointed you.
John Watson: That's good... that's a good deduction, yeah.
Sherlock Holmes: Don't make people into heroes, John. Heroes don't exist, and if they did, I wouldn't be one of them.
 

January 18, 2017 12:39 am  #49


Re: Mycroft in TFP

I haven't watched the episode yet (except for the beginning portion, which I kept muted), so I don't know all the ins and outs of what you are all discussing.  It means that I have something to look forward to, though, when the DVD arrives next week! =)

With that said, I hope that Mycroft also cares for John after this, as he already does for Sherlock.  As Sherlock said, John is family, if only in spirit.
 

Last edited by kgreen20 (January 18, 2017 12:40 am)

 

January 18, 2017 3:20 am  #50


Re: Mycroft in TFP

All of these are so true!

Two scenes not mentioned (or I missed?) that made my day
1. Mycroft in the fisherman's disguise
2. Fat Mycroft eating cake in a flashback made me so excited

 

January 19, 2017 11:56 am  #51


Re: Mycroft in TFP

Obviously everybody loves Mycroft more, when he is more human, and less ​hyper-cleaver in his earlier, unpleasant way, but 

WhoIWantToBe wrote:

meowraahsan wrote:

6. Mycroft's general reaction towards the atrocities that Euros was committing before his very eyes. He seemed to be the most human of the 3 (him, Sherlock and John), but that's plainly because he isn't as experienced as Sherlock and John when it comes to handling such high pressure situations. Sherlock and John clearly have nerves of absolute steel; true heroes. Mycroft was visibly disturbed by what was happening to them and even gagged when the governor shot himself. This is a side of M. Holmes we haven't seen before - a very vulnerable and horrified Mycroft Holmes. Phenomenal acting from Mark's part.

Although I largely did not like the episode, I sincerely liked this. I always felt Mycroft was pretty detached to what Sherlock and John did, his feelings towards 'legwork' were pretty indicative. So given Sherlock and John have a load of experience with this grisly, high pressure stuff, Mycroft certainly has his own situations but its pretty clear he is never on the front lines. I think he has a whole new respect for what Sherlock and John really do.  

I would respect Mycroft more, if I could believe, he really faces, what he does in his work. Now he seems to be a man, who always was hiding his head in the sand, and when reality struck first time, he was like "oh, it is not my way!" - when he surely needed to send his people in danger, or even order to kill, many times. 
Mycroft's image was changed in this season, now I like him more too, but this part of the picture looks inconsistent.

I would like him too, to be more careful, when he was talking to Moriarty. "She predicted the exact dates of the last three terrorist attacks" - why to inform Moriarty, that government had such possibility? "Five minutes unsupervised conversation...with you." - OK, conversation... But, why to add so freely "unsupervised"? Perhaps Moriarty would not guess this part, and the damages, caused by the conversation, could be not so big? When Mycrotf became a chatterbox?

Oakwood375 wrote:

(...)
Two scenes not mentioned (or I missed?) that made my day
1. Mycroft in the fisherman's disguise
2. Fat Mycroft eating cake in a flashback made me so excited

I like it too, especially this eyebrows thing ;)
 

Last edited by Naavy (January 19, 2017 3:14 pm)

 

January 21, 2017 2:35 am  #52


Re: Mycroft in TFP

One thing I didn't mention in detail in my earlier post: 

I thought it was very sweet/sad to see how Mycroft obviously longs for his brother's praise or approval, but his pride never let him admit that up until the moment theiy were facing death together: He obviously had been wondering if Sherlock liked his Lady Bracknell for decades, and it made him very happy to learn that he had. 

Considering that it's even sadder to think that he was not only willing to sacrifice his life later in the episode, but was actually willing to die knowing that Sherlock hated him/despised him for the nasty things he said about John (if Sherlock hadn't seen through him, that is). 

 

January 21, 2017 8:15 am  #53


Re: Mycroft in TFP

"I always wondered" is one of my favourite lines.  I agree with you, and it also looks as if Mycroft didn't get so much approval from his parents either.  Sherlock was the "grownup" and the favoured child. 

     Thread Starter
 

January 21, 2017 8:37 am  #54


Re: Mycroft in TFP

Poor Mycroft.


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January 21, 2017 8:39 am  #55


Re: Mycroft in TFP

Yes, they were always very anti-sentimental, when they were talking to each other. This little exchange was the equivalent of tearful "good-bye" between another people. 

 

January 21, 2017 8:48 am  #56


Re: Mycroft in TFP

I think it was their way of telling each other "I love you".


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January 21, 2017 8:56 am  #57


Re: Mycroft in TFP

Most likely But they are not used to express their feelings directly. Surely you remember "Your loss would break my heart", and Sherlock's reaction...
But Mycroft was the one, who preferred denying any "sentiment".

Last edited by Naavy (January 21, 2017 8:56 am)

 

January 21, 2017 8:59 am  #58


Re: Mycroft in TFP

I think they both tried to, but I never totally bought that it was completely true for either of them.
Certainly after HLV, nobody could be under any delusion that Mycroft didn't care about Sherlock deeply.


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January 21, 2017 9:15 am  #59


Re: Mycroft in TFP

Yes, and my secret theory is, that he was going to use - or even arrange - some crisis situation, to bring Sherlock back to UK even without Moriarty's "come back". Just not so soon - he would wait 2 or 3 months, to let the emotions to subside. 

 

January 21, 2017 10:19 am  #60


Re: Mycroft in TFP

Agreed, I'm sure he had some sort of backup plan to make sure Sherlock wouldn't die on his mission in eastern Europe. 

 

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