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January 16, 2017 9:59 pm  #21


Re: Mycroft in TFP

Well, as I wrote already in "First Impressions", in TFP the series could be called "Mycroft", not "Sherlock" Mark Gatiss's part was hard, since he had really long story to tell. Maybe too long, I would like him to have less to talk, and more to show in this part of episode. But in the rest of the episode he made it up. 
I will not repeat everything, what was said before (I agree - simple like that).
Instead I will to admit, I was surprised, when Mycroft turned out to be unable to shot the governor. He cooperated with MI6 and CIA, and used to orchestrate many secret operations, very likely also needed to supervise them, or at least sometimes take the command. Obviously he was responsible for many lives. It is hardly possible, that straight from uni he came to sit behind his desk - he had to have some field experience. Additionally - in HLV he mentioned: "In case you’d forgotten, fieldwork is not my natural milieu.", but not "I never do a fieldwork", and obviously he knew, how to behave. This part was a bit hard to believe for me.

Last edited by Naavy (January 16, 2017 10:01 pm)

 

January 16, 2017 10:03 pm  #22


Re: Mycroft in TFP

No, I don't remember his thumb, but my first thought when I read it was "By the pricking of my thumbs, something wicked this way comes".

Yes, Sherlock must have known Mycroft was scared of clowns.  And also of little girls (which presumably had been started by Eurus).

     Thread Starter
 

January 16, 2017 10:32 pm  #23


Re: Mycroft in TFP

About the clowns, I've just read that in a Moffat interview:

Back to the finale: Does Mycroft have a clown phobia we don’t know about?
My wife does, she’s terrified of them. But nah, it’s just that clowns are always scary.​

​Btw, I forgot to say don't you think Mycroft has a tendancy to always blame himself?

​It already happened in TAB ("This was my fault.)

And here "This is my fault. Moriarty."


 


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January 16, 2017 10:49 pm  #24


Re: Mycroft in TFP

Ah, I love this thread as I loved every second of Mycroft in this episode. 

Kiara_Katsura wrote:

Also anyone else notice his thumb bleeding at the end of being scared by his brother? What was the cause?

I didn't notice when watching the episode, but checked it out after you mentioned it. I have no idea where he could have gotten that wound, the thumb looked ok when he got rid of the blade a drew the pistol. But the wound looks slightly differently when he's holding up his hands and when they're down, so I don't think the wound is real and Mark cut his thumb.

Naavy wrote:

Instead I will to admit, I was surprised, when Mycroft turned out to be unable to shot the governor. He cooperated with MI6 and CIA, and used to orchestrate many secret operations, very likely also needed to supervise them, or at least sometimes take the command. Obviously he was responsible for many lives. It is hardly possible, that straight from uni he came to sit behind his desk - he had to have some field experience. Additionally - in HLV he mentioned: "In case you’d forgotten, fieldwork is not my natural milieu.", but not "I never do a fieldwork", and obviously he knew, how to behave. This part was a bit hard to believe for me.

I think it's very different to kill someone in self defence or killing some criminal you think deserves it than to kill some decent person who hasn't done anything wrong but being under someone's spell. 
 

 

January 16, 2017 10:51 pm  #25


Re: Mycroft in TFP

I think he does... he's probably always blamed himself for Eurus' fate... that he didn't see it sooner... poor thing!


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January 16, 2017 10:57 pm  #26


Re: Mycroft in TFP

This Is The Phantom Lady wrote:

I think he does... he's probably always blamed himself for Eurus' fate... that he didn't see it sooner... poor thing!

​Yes (even though he was just a teen at the time. But a teen with incredible skills, so yes, he surely had seen it coming), and seeing how terrified and traumatised he is by any death or possible death in that ep, I guess he blamed himself for Victor's death too...

​(God, I was thinking about Victor's poor parents learning that after all those years, the remains of their son have finally been found... This is scary...)
 


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January 16, 2017 11:28 pm  #27


Re: Mycroft in TFP

The details I loved most about Mycroft in this episode (apart from all the things already mentioned above): 

1. He looks like he doesn't want to, but he just can't help but smiling looking at the childhood video of him, Sherlock and the parents on the beach. And that little smile when he's watching little Sherlock hugging not so little Mycroft in the video. So sad. 

2. "Why did you do this? This pantomime. WHY??!!!" This last "why" is so emotional. Although the scene as a whole was very funny, I felt so sorry for Mycroft there. 

3. Concerning Lady Bracknell:  "You were great" - "You really think so?" - "Yes, I really do." - "That's good to know, I always wondered." That whole little conversation was pure brotherly love between the two Holmes http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/love.png


4.  Sherlock: "Family's always difficult." Mycroft: "Is this an occation for banter?" Sherlock: "Case in point." I don't know why I love this, but I do. Mycroft all worried and Sherlock trying to lift the tension.

5. Little Girl: "I'm on a plane, it's going to crash!" Mycroft: "What is this? We can't do this!" Sherlock: "Do shut up, dear!" He calls Mycroft "dear", and not even in an ironic way.

6. Mycroft: "She's very clever." Sherlock: "I'm beginning to think you're not!" That hurt, disappointed look on Mycroft's face follwing Sherlock's remark again almost broke my heart. 

7. And I can't help but mention it again: That scene where Mycroft tried to make it easier for Sherlock to shoot him. That was just so emotional. I realized immediatly what he was up to and just hoped that Sherlock would see through him as well. Luckily I didn't have to worry. But still I nearly died in front of the TV, just hoping against hope that Sherlock wouldn't pull the trigger.  We still want to see more of that heart of yours, Mycroft, even if you think it's not much of a target!

8. Sherlock: "Mycroft. Mhm. Make sure he's looked after. He's not as strong as he thinks he is." Again, so sweet brotherly love.

9. Mycroft feeling all lonely and left out while watching Sherlock and Eurus connecting over the violin and his grateful, sad little smile when Mum takes hold of his hand. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/love.png
 That just killed me. 

 

Last edited by Kae Em (January 16, 2017 11:32 pm)

 

January 16, 2017 11:46 pm  #28


Re: Mycroft in TFP

meowraahsan wrote:

6. Mycroft's general reaction towards the atrocities that Euros was committing before his very eyes. He seemed to be the most human of the 3 (him, Sherlock and John), but that's plainly because he isn't as experienced as Sherlock and John when it comes to handling such high pressure situations. Sherlock and John clearly have nerves of absolute steel; true heroes. Mycroft was visibly disturbed by what was happening to them and even gagged when the governor shot himself. This is a side of M. Holmes we haven't seen before - a very vulnerable and horrified Mycroft Holmes. Phenomenal acting from Mark's part.

Although I largely did not like the episode, I sincerely liked this. I always felt Mycroft was pretty detached to what Sherlock and John did, his feelings towards 'legwork' were pretty indicative. So given Sherlock and John have a load of experience with this grisly, high pressure stuff, Mycroft certainly has his own situations but its pretty clear he is never on the front lines. I think he has a whole new respect for what Sherlock and John really do. 
 

 

January 17, 2017 12:02 am  #29


Re: Mycroft in TFP

KAE EM:
1. Yes, he was so adorable in that scene! My heart melt!

​3. And later, Sherlock isn't fooled by Mycroft's despicable behaviour (when he says horrible things to make Sherlock angry at him and shoot him) and tells Mycroft "Even your Lady Bracknell was more convincing!" (and to John "ignore everything he said, he's just being kind") / "You said you liked my Lady Bracknell..."

​4. I had missed the "dear" part! Thanks for pointing it out, that's sweet.

​8. Their roles are really reversed in that episode. Mycroft is always the one to ask people to look after Sherlock (ie. "Dr Watson... look after him... please"), it makes a nice change. Not that Sherlock didn't know Mycroft wasn't as strong as he prétends to be before that, but I think it may have never occured to him that his big brother had no one who looked after him. (I mean, obviously, if Mycroft was in danger/trouble, Sherlock would do anything to help him, but otherwise, he doesn't keep an eye on Mycroft like Mycroft does on him...)

​As much of a Johnlock shipper that I am, I've always craved Holmes' brotherly love even more and I must say TFP is not my favourite episode as far as the plot is concerned (though it's def one of my fav) but it may be my fav ep as far as characters are concerned (well, Mycroft being my fav character, I'm obviously biaised! http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/tongue.png
)
 

Last edited by Punch me in the face (January 17, 2017 12:02 am)


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January 17, 2017 12:28 am  #30


Re: Mycroft in TFP

I fully agree with everythiny you just wrote, Punch me in the face. 

I wonder if Mycroft did belief Sherlock when he said he loved his Lady Bracknell or if he knew his brother was just being nice to him because it might have been their last conversation ever. Mycroft seemed more resigned than disappointed later when Sherlock mentioned that his Lady Bracknell wasn't that convincing. 

I agree, Sherlock surely always knew that Mycroft was not as strong as he pretended to be. Yet it was so loveley to actually see him care for Mycroft. It's something we didn't get to see very often, as you mentioned it was the other way round most of the time. 

Last edited by Kae Em (January 17, 2017 12:28 am)

 

January 17, 2017 4:10 am  #31


Re: Mycroft in TFP

No matter how you may feel about the episode or this season in general, "TFP" was a Mycroft lovers dream. I've always felt so much sympathy for him- all the immense responsibility he took on in his life. Keep Britain safe & secure, keeps his junkie brother from killing himself, keeps his mondo psycho sister locked up for everyone's sake, keeps the fact she's still alive from his parents to spare them more grief. All this with no thanks or gratitude from anyone, so why do it at all? Someone with no heart or emotions would never go through that kind of monumental effort. The range & depth of emotions he showed in "TFP" was amazing. Mark Gatiss is freeking brilliant & deserves some recognition for this episode alone. A BAFTA would be appropriate, methinks!

 

January 17, 2017 5:10 am  #32


Re: Mycroft in TFP

After watching TFP I love Mycroft even more than before. You guys have already summed it up perfectly so I won't just repeated every great scene.

Let me just say that I was sure he would die and am so happy he didn't!


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January 17, 2017 6:48 am  #33


Re: Mycroft in TFP

But I was worried by Sherlock telling Greg to take care of him...
Incidentally, we've always known he could break...remember the scene of him being crushed by Jim's call in SIB.


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January 17, 2017 9:43 am  #34


Re: Mycroft in TFP

The Lady Bracknell conversation at 221B - what gets me is "I always wondered".  Thinking that Mycroft has spent years wondering if Sherlock liked his performance! 

I agree that there's a big difference between ordering events that might cause deaths, and witnessing/causing a violent death.   I felt it was believable that Mycroft would be the most affected.   And actually, there was no guarantee that Eurus wouldn't kill the governer's wife whatever they did. 

     Thread Starter
 

January 17, 2017 2:08 pm  #35


Re: Mycroft in TFP

Liberty wrote:

The Lady Bracknell conversation at 221B - what gets me is "I always wondered".  Thinking that Mycroft has spent years wondering if Sherlock liked his performance! 

IMO the only real game between Sherlock and Mycroft was deducing - like in TEH. They always tried to deduce each other, and to hide every possible information and emotion, to not be deduced. Apparently Sherlock was pretty successful about Mycroft's Lady Bracknell.
 

 

January 17, 2017 2:11 pm  #36


Re: Mycroft in TFP

WhoIWantToBe wrote:

meowraahsan wrote:

6. Mycroft's general reaction towards the atrocities that Euros was committing before his very eyes. He seemed to be the most human of the 3 (him, Sherlock and John), but that's plainly because he isn't as experienced as Sherlock and John when it comes to handling such high pressure situations. Sherlock and John clearly have nerves of absolute steel; true heroes. Mycroft was visibly disturbed by what was happening to them and even gagged when the governor shot himself. This is a side of M. Holmes we haven't seen before - a very vulnerable and horrified Mycroft Holmes. Phenomenal acting from Mark's part.

Although I largely did not like the episode, I sincerely liked this. I always felt Mycroft was pretty detached to what Sherlock and John did, his feelings towards 'legwork' were pretty indicative. So given Sherlock and John have a load of experience with this grisly, high pressure stuff, Mycroft certainly has his own situations but its pretty clear he is never on the front lines. I think he has a whole new respect for what Sherlock and John really do. 
 

​Exactly. Holmes and Watson are professionals when it comes to these things. They've experienced life or death situations before and have had to keep their cool during those moments. Mycroft on the other hand has never been much for 'legwork', as you said. He's the brains behind operations, but never the executor. Sherlock and John were able to divorce themselves from their emotions during TFP, however, ironically, the Ice Man simply could not.

​Therefore, I truly believe Mycroft has surely found a newfound respect for what Sherlock and John do. They're a bit like trauma surgeons whose hands never shake while operating on their dying patients. They are professionals. Our fearless heroes - the Baker Street boys! http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/happy.png

 

January 17, 2017 6:03 pm  #37


Re: Mycroft in TFP

Yes, I have to say:  I absolutely loved the extended interaction between the Holmes boys and John.
I really think it did draw them altogether.


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January 17, 2017 6:47 pm  #38


Re: Mycroft in TFP

I have always loved Mycroft but TFP made me love him even more for all the reasons you guys have already mentioned. I can imagine that after Eurus was sent away Mycroft felt very protective of Sherlock and all the instances where we see Mycroft concerned about Sherlock throughout the series have new weight to them after watching TFP.


                                                                                                                      

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January 17, 2017 6:56 pm  #39


Re: Mycroft in TFP

Yes, and he was concerned for him emotionally as well as physically.   I remember that bit in ASIB when Mycroft apologises to Sherlock for putting Irene in his path, and it feels so caring now.   Sherlock has just given information to Moriarty and caused a threat to the country, because he wanted to show off to a girl he fancied, and Mycroft's reaction is to apologise, and feel sorry that he has been hurt.

     Thread Starter
 

January 17, 2017 7:00 pm  #40


Re: Mycroft in TFP

And Mycroft always blames himself, like when he tells John to apologise to Sherlock in HLV and then for giving Euros Moriarty...though I suppose for the last one, it kind of was him.
But he feels so guilty about deceiving his parents...what a weight that must have been for him to carry, for all those years.


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