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January 16, 2017 12:14 pm  #21


Re: Not a fan of this episode

gently69 wrote:

Whisky wrote:

I wonder, is there an objective way to judge this show?
 

If you are not emotionally connected there certainly is.
Our problem... loving that show with all of our heart. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/sad.png

 

Quite so. Or, in other immortal words: "Always."


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January 16, 2017 12:17 pm  #22


Re: Not a fan of this episode

Oh, Whisky, I'm at work. Can't cry now. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/cry.png


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January 16, 2017 12:17 pm  #23


Re: Not a fan of this episode

Whisky wrote:

I wonder, is there an objective way to judge this show?

 

It's art! It is super hard to be objective about art, I think if people were only feeling objectively about an art form, the creators would feel pretty dead inside    I remember once having to completely take apart a certain TV show in the cutting room, because the director themself had become so attached to the material. It was one of the hardest things I ever had to do, and some. I'd like to think in the end it was better, because I was more subjective than the director was, and able to see it from a different place more in line with the audience. Likewise in theatre, the performers themselves are not objective; they look to the audience to amplify or tone down parts of their performance.

I do think as fans and art fanatics, we will intially see something through the lens of our experience, and this will change over time leading to more objectivity. But the beauty of art is that it is that initial, subjective emotionally reaction that stays with you as a viewer. 

 

January 16, 2017 12:19 pm  #24


Re: Not a fan of this episode

Whisky wrote:

This is just me trying to understand why I didn't enjoy this episode as much as I hoped. I'm posting here, because I think it might offend some as "negativity" (which, in my case, is just sadness and disappointment).

I keep thinking maybe the episode works better in a cinema. It wasn't quite TV format, for me.

I didn't like the "feeling" of the episode, the atmosphere, so to say. It felt strange to me. I was for a very long time convinced that the whole thing is just a dream. I was surprised when it never stopped.

...

I am not sure what was the point of Eurus, on the whole scale. I think Sherlock made a great development that, even without this episode, would have been convincing (e.g. him hugging John, him inviting Molly along for a case, him acknowledging Greg, him defending Mrs. Hudson, ... it all showed me how human he is, how much he cares when he lets himself). When Greg says in the end "he is a good man", I didn't think it needed to be stated.

And God, I missed all that colourful, thoughtful stuff. Maybe that's really my own problem... I got depressed watching these rooms! I wonder if people who liked this are people who like these kind of stories. But then, I liked THOB, and that is dark, too. A different dark, but still. Funnily, I wasn't spooked or anything. I just got this bored horror-movie-feeling, where I usually go to the loo quite often because I just cannot relate. I wonder if that is maybe it. Maybe others can relate a lot better because they enjoy the genre more.

Okay, sorry for this. For the record, I liked bits and pieces. Not all bad. But mew. The story didn't work for me.

Doesn't mean I didn't enjoy the glimpses of little pirate Sherlock. Actually, I liked pretty much most things that didn't happen in this spooky island prison. Okay, not the Mary Miss you DVD (where did they find this?). But I enjoyed the plane story, and the childhood flashbacks, and parts of the ending.

 

 
Whisky your thoughts describe perfectly how I feel about this episode. I enjoyed the screening at the BFI but after watching the episode again last night on television and mulling over the storyline since last Thursday I'm somewhat disappointed. This was the rug pull they had promised us for such a long time? Sherlock has a mad evil sibling who is locked away? Didn't they say when they pull the rug we would say "I should have seen it coming" and that the culmination of this series was about the story they have been telling us from the beginning. Well sorry then I must be dumb but I didn't feel like I should have seen this coming,  the mad sibling story doesn't make groundbreaking television for me and I can't see how it is a part of the story they have been telling from the beginning. Actually, the entire Euros story arc feels almost completely disconnected to series 1-3 and TAB. Yes we had various hints of childhood trauma and the code "Redbeard" and "East Wind" but that's it. Were we supposed to extrapolate to a mad sibling from these tidbits? And the fact that it was a secret sister instead of a third brother doesn't count as a big reveal either. The story would be equally unconvincing if it had been a brother, I don't see why making it a sister is in any way significant.

This episode was supposed to tie loose ends and while hey have answered some questions (even if I don't like the answers I do acknowledge that it does give us answers) it opens up new questions so I don't feel satisfied at all. We were told what made Sherlock the man he is, but what made his sister? Why is she like that? Are we supposed to simply accept that she is "psychotic" or whatever? Introducing such an important character so late into a story and then proclaiming that this character is the reason for things that happened much earlier is always dangerous and often lacks plausiblility. Euros came into this series like a "dues ex machina" and maybe that's why I don't find her convincing despite the great acting by Sian Brooks.

Wow, I never thought I would ever write this about a Sherlock episode but right now I don't feel the need to rewatch TFP. Maybe I will after a while to see if my judgement changes but right now I have a strong feeling that future rewatching of the series will end with TLD for me.


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To hear with eyes belongs to love’s fine wit.
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January 16, 2017 12:34 pm  #25


Re: Not a fan of this episode

diva, right now I feel the same about rewatching. But I will try it, sometime.

I think, if the first sadness and emotional response is over, I might be able to enjoy TFP for what it is. But I cannot enjoy it right now for what I hoped it was. I will have to go back to zero and tell myself: this is what you get, that's all there is, now find the goodies. And I will. I'm sure.

Just right now, I'm suffering from the impact. It's a relationship thing. You will get over it, and some long time after the break-up, you can have a coffee and see it for what it is, and that it had it's good enjoyable moments. But right now, it's like many people are celebrating a wedding while I'm having a broken heart. And it was a long, intense, wonderful relationship. You always want the probably last conversation you have with each other to be a good, conclusive one. You don't want to feel like hanging in the air, stuttering "but why?".

I will probably be nicer to the episode in a few weeks. Maybe even days. But not right now http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/cry.png
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January 16, 2017 3:02 pm  #26


Re: Not a fan of this episode

ginger, I admit I tended to agree with you, especially  when the episode ended on a sugary 2 men and a baby theme. I wondered if I would ever want to watch it again. When our local PBS channel reran it at midnight, I thought I'd see if it held my attention. It did. My interest and, yes, a genuine appreciation for, the episode increased  and I watched it all, catching more details than the first time through. Has hindsight altered or softened your opinion? I appreciate your honesty!

 

January 16, 2017 3:19 pm  #27


Re: Not a fan of this episode

I'm trying to rewatch, because some people mentioned scenes I apparently missed. Some scenes where nicer than expected the second time. But overall... still not really fond.
 


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January 16, 2017 3:57 pm  #28


Re: Not a fan of this episode

Just some quick thoughts as I have seen all of it.  I turned it off after the head of the prison shot himself.
We cannot have ANY follow up of John getting shot?  Just oh it was a tranquilizer.  ???
We cannot have ANY follow up of the flat being blown up, John and Sherlock flying out the second story? 

Euros's magic voice automatically hypnotizes everyone?  
 What the hell weaving head dance were her and Moriarty doing?

 

January 16, 2017 5:04 pm  #29


Re: Not a fan of this episode

Sorry guys, I just thought it was amazing.
They went out with a bang.


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January 16, 2017 5:47 pm  #30


Re: Not a fan of this episode

besleybean wrote:

Sorry guys, I just thought it was amazing.
They went out with a bang.

I guess, you rather like horrors and thrillers. I like them too, but "Sherlock" was always an exceptional series, and I hoped to see "Sherlock", not anything else. Yesterday I felt sad about the possible ending of the series. Today I think - maybe this option will be the better one? 
http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/depressed.png

 

January 16, 2017 5:53 pm  #31


Re: Not a fan of this episode

Meggie K wrote:

ginger, I admit I tended to agree with you, especially  when the episode ended on a sugary 2 men and a baby theme. I wondered if I would ever want to watch it again. When our local PBS channel reran it at midnight, I thought I'd see if it held my attention. It did. My interest and, yes, a genuine appreciation for, the episode increased  and I watched it all, catching more details than the first time through. Has hindsight altered or softened your opinion? I appreciate your honesty!

It still feels like a let down but I now like Mycroft more then I ever did. I felt this ep was like seeing the Matrix for the first time and thinking you knew where they were going to go and then you see the next two movies. I generally go back and watch the ep again right after I watch it a first time but this time I didn't. I did re watch the first 12 minutes up until the bomb went off in baker st. One thing I really liked about this show was how it used logic to solve its mysteries. It was why I could never get into Supernatural even though it has a huge following. I can turn off my brain and believe some things there is a point I just notice the errors. Sherlocks sister seems to have almost super powered level mind abilities which don't exist in the Sherlock universe. At least with Moriarty we know he didn't have a key to the whole city, he was blackmailing people. She was said to have the intelligence of newton but I don't see how that translates as evil. Maybe it was like in the play Wicked, 'Was she truly wicked or did she have wickedness thrust upon her' 

     Thread Starter
 

January 16, 2017 6:14 pm  #32


Re: Not a fan of this episode

I thought it was a wonderfully understanding portrayal of mental illness.
That poor girl was a mess.


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January 16, 2017 7:42 pm  #33


Re: Not a fan of this episode

diva wrote:

Didn't they say when they pull the rug we would say "I should have seen it coming" and that the culmination of this series was about the story they have been telling us from the beginning. Well sorry then I must be dumb but I didn't feel like I should have seen this coming, the mad sibling story doesn't make groundbreaking television for me and I can't see how it is a part of the story they have been telling from the beginning.

I'm just picking this quote, because well: Didn't they say so many things in the past years? Didn't they say that in TRF there was a clue that everyone missed - and did they ever tell us what that clue was supposed to be? And didn't they tell us that in S4 they would be writing tv history? Where did they do that, exactly?

Today I read a post on another forum (which has nothing to do with BBC Sherlock, it's a forum for all sorts of topics, but there is a Benedict-thread) which basically said that the success of the show has made Mofftiss kind of high and that the most important thing for them seems to be to throw all sorts of clever stuff at us - and most of the stuff doesn't really add up. And I agree. Everything has to be so clever - which is totally fine, but instead of just showing it to us they are making a huge fuss about it in advance, telling us how clever and crazy it's going to be. I've stopped watching or reading interviews with Mofftiss quite some time ago, but when you're on tumblr you come across a lot of this stuff anyway. And everytime I do I know exactly why I'm not actively seeking out those interviews anymore. Because they're making promises, they're announcing all sorts of stuff and yes, they are raising expectations. And afterwards they go "There is a clue everyone missed, I can't believe nobody saw that, hahaha!!". Thanks, but no thanks.

Apart from that: I really liked TLD. They promised us darkness and with TLD they delivered convincingly. TFP however felt so self-indulgent and totally over the top to me. There were some great moments, but in the context of the whole show it felt so constructed and artificial. To me this is a clue that they did not plan this from the very beginning. I know they keep talking about the story they have been telling from the start - but I don't buy it, sorry.
 


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January 16, 2017 8:03 pm  #34


Re: Not a fan of this episode

I think with it being the last episode, they threw the kitchen sink at it.
But I still think it's basically the story they wanted to tell...I loved it.


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January 16, 2017 9:15 pm  #35


Re: Not a fan of this episode

I am still quite ambivalent, I guess I will give it chance and rewatch. I liked the beginning and end but the middle? 
We have already expected some tragedy in Sherlock's childhood and third sibling somehow guitly for some time, even that Readbeard probably is not just a dog,  but I am a bit  disappointed with this solution. It is like they would  prefer action and horror to clever things unlike previous episodes. They had to justify  whole life inprisonment, to show that it was necessary, no other possibility so showed totally mad person but it did not work for me. After TLD  I expected something more, the false Faith was promising but the person in Sherrinford? And the game?  I must admit that the part was for me partly unrealistic partly boring.
I felt big relief when the Moriarty scene appeared to be 5 years ago, OK as explanation, . But why the Moriarty's videos, they were just annoying. And the rest in the fort was absurd.  Surprisingly, at Musgrave,  the same game but I liked it much better. I might have some problem with closed room.http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/grin.png


And one more thing I am still not able to process - the girl had 6 years, did something horrible but  still isolate such a child totally from society is just the oposite what should be done to try to cure at least something. I cannot believe that loving parent would agree and do not want to be intensivelly included in what happens with their daughter. Mycroft had nothing to do with it, she had to be alive for them still for years.  Or did I miss some important information? 

 

January 16, 2017 9:36 pm  #36


Re: Not a fan of this episode

I think the rug pull conversation was specifically about Mary being an assassin.  This time, the thing they seem to be talking about is Eurus being a sister rather than a brother - but of course, we did think of a female sibling!   But I think that is supposed to be the thing that people missed this time.  They were talking about the careful wording of the conversation about "the other one" to make it sound like a brother. 

Preceja, it was Uncle Rudy who dealt with Eurus when she was a little girl (Mycroft was too young).

 

January 16, 2017 9:55 pm  #37


Re: Not a fan of this episode

Liberty wrote:

Preceja, it was Uncle Rudy who dealt with Eurus when she was a little girl (Mycroft was too young).

I know but cannot imagine Uncle Rudi to take the child and exclude parents who should be the most important people included into the rehabilitation of the child except for the specialists.

 

January 16, 2017 11:25 pm  #38


Re: Not a fan of this episode

SolarSystem wrote:

... said that the success of the show has made Mofftiss kind of high and that the most important thing for them seems to be to throw all sorts of clever stuff at us - and most of the stuff doesn't really add up. And I agree. Everything has to be so clever - which is totally fine, but instead of just showing it to us they are making a huge fuss about it in advance, telling us how clever and crazy it's going to be.
 

Yeah, then they have the nerve to get angry at their fans for searching for clues, apparently! Come on Moffatt and Gatiss, you can't have it both ways. 

 

January 16, 2017 11:48 pm  #39


Re: Not a fan of this episode

I'm with you Whisky and others.. I will "always"
love Sherlock.  Can't help myself.

But is sad, and the end of an era..  I will forever
consider seasons 1 and 2 some of the best
television ever made, and am grateful for that.

It 's tough to point to an example of a series
finale that really touches on all the right points
and hits it out of the park anyway  (Breaking Bad,
maybe?), so I can forgive a bit.   I probably
just won't re-watch the comparative plot
sloppiness of this ending anytime soon.

Overall, though, (applause), still in love.

Off to my bee cottage in Sussex Downs now...
Anyone?

 

January 16, 2017 11:53 pm  #40


Re: Not a fan of this episode

jenosborn wrote:

Off to my bee cottage in Sussex Downs now...
Anyone?

Janine is waiting.

 

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