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January 2, 2017 7:36 pm  #21


Re: John´s cheating

If bus girl or E xx is in the next episode as we suspect. Maybe her interests were not really in John anyway.

If she is Culverton daughter and goes to SH because her father murdered someone .I am scared.


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It's just transport. The virus in the hard drive . However impossible .Must be the truth.
 

January 2, 2017 7:53 pm  #22


Re: John´s cheating

Moth, I do wonder if that's what Mary's warning Sherlock about.  I don't think it's a simple case of her wanting him to deal with a grieving John.   That wouldn't be going to hell. 

And what's odd, is that the bus lady is clearly in disguise.  Or the Lady in Red/Culverton's daughter is.  Probably both

nakahara wrote:

Although we never see anything physical on-screen, I wonder, why did John feel compelled to send Mary ahead of him to Sherlock´s case?

My only answer is: to meet with his new lover while Mary and Sherlock are engaged otherwise. And probably not for a talk....

It would have been quite the quicky, as he arrived a few minutes after Mary, having arranged childcare on the way!   No, I think he'd stopped by then, and was going to come clean. 
 

 

January 2, 2017 7:56 pm  #23


Re: John´s cheating

Liberty wrote:

It would have been quite the quicky, as he arrived a few minutes after Mary, having arranged childcare on the way!   No, I think he'd stopped by then, and was going to come clean. 
 

I think so too.


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January 2, 2017 8:18 pm  #24


Re: John´s cheating

Mothonthemantel wrote:

If bus girl or E xx is in the next episode as we suspect. Maybe her interests were not really in John anyway.

If she is Culverton daughter and goes to SH because her father murdered someone .I am scared.

Yeah I think there is more to her story. I wonder why she chose/was sent to interact with John first.


                                                                                                                      

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January 2, 2017 8:20 pm  #25


Re: John´s cheating

That might actually be an argument for him not having gone all the way with her. If she does have some sinister plan of harming, kidnapping or whatever-else with him, then she might have done just that if he had gone home with her? 


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January 2, 2017 8:30 pm  #26


Re: John´s cheating

For the initial question: I think that is just John being a man. He feels tickled that a young beautiful woman shows some interest in him and it escalates from there. Feels very natural to me. How far did they go? Hard to say. The "It has been too long" seems to implicate that there has been some kind of regularity to their meetings. If there was, unlikely that all they did was ride a bus together. But his last message to her seems to implicate that they did not spend too much time with each other ("getting to know you a bit"). Maybe he fell for her one more time, but I think by the time he wanted to confront Mary about it he had at least decided to end this flirt/affair.

But if she goes to Sherlock that might indicate that she had no interest in hurting anyone, except of course if she turns out to be the willing bait

 


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January 2, 2017 8:32 pm  #27


Re: John´s cheating

This whole subject is a rabbit hole that's wonderfully intriguing. Any of the theories could be real or imagined . We do know there's some kind of thread linking all three episodes to the finale climax.
It's all rather 

Does anyone think Sherlock asking John to take the bus was relevant.


"Man may not be degraded  to being a machine by being denied to be a ghost in the machine."
It's just transport. The virus in the hard drive . However impossible .Must be the truth.
 

January 2, 2017 10:47 pm  #28


Re: John´s cheating

I've been reading this thread and I agree with most of your messages.

I think John needs new excitement to feel alive. Remember one of the first things Sherlock told him ("And I said 'dangerous', and here you are"). John doesn't really want a quiet life. That's boring after all he had experienced and loved. He chose Sherlock (a high-functioning sociopath who resolves crimes) and Mary (a former spy and assassin). At first, when Sherlock "died" and he met Mary, I imagine that all that John wanted was calmness, getting over Sherlock's death (kind of a metaphore for their crazy life together). He told Sherlock back in 221B: he started dating Mary because she wasn't supposed to be dangerous. But Sherlock is back, so "nothing" really happened, John marries Mary and settles down... for a while. So this girl appears in the bus, looks at him flirtatiously and John can't resist the urge to get involved in another new and dangerous situation. Every time he texts or meets her, I'm sure he can feel the adrenaline running through his veins.

Plus I think John feels Sherlock and Mary ignore him. Right before he starts looking and smiling at the red-haired girl, he receives Sherlock's text: "Mary says it's ok", or something similar. John must be thinking: "Come on! Let me ask her, al least. Everything gets arranged behind my back". So I think he kind of rebels against Mary and Sherlock, maybe without even being conscious. And he was about to confess his cheating to Mary at the end of the episode, so what he really needed was attention and a real confrontation.

Besides, John's resentment against Mary due to her lies and shooting Sherlock could be playing and important part in his cheating. I think his love for Mary wears thin, actually. ("Is it too soon for a divorce?", was he joking or not?). He didn't know her for long before he proposed to her, so I think we can conclude that John kind of "used" Mary to get over Sherlock's death. In Spain, we use the proverb: "one nail drives out another" (which means you can or you try to replace a person with another one to forget them) and I think it's exactly what John tried to do.

And as for the mysterious E, I'm sure we'll be seeing more of her in the next episodes. She was waiting for John to look at her. She already had the piece of paper in her hand. Perhaps she actually wrote her number in a rush once she got off the bus in front of John, but she was ready to do it. Who is this woman? I like what someone wrote in a post: she must be dangerous if John chose her, hahaha. Indeed.

And, after my long post, I want to say that I don't want to provide John an excuse for cheating. No way. His character deceived me a lot, because you can even understand that a married man or woman could fall in love with somebody else eventually. A friend, a colleague, a person who someone introduced to them... I don't know. But to get his feet wet with a good-looking stranger just to feel special or to have his revenge? I didn't like it.

Last edited by NicoleCollard (January 2, 2017 10:52 pm)


Sherlock Holmes: I've disappointed you.
John Watson: That's good... that's a good deduction, yeah.
Sherlock Holmes: Don't make people into heroes, John. Heroes don't exist, and if they did, I wouldn't be one of them.
 

January 2, 2017 10:50 pm  #29


Re: John´s cheating

I honestly don't even think he did it for revenge.
I think he was just an almost middle aged guy, looking for a bit of a confidence boost.


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January 2, 2017 10:56 pm  #30


Re: John´s cheating

Liberty wrote:

It would have been quite the quicky, as he arrived a few minutes after Mary, having arranged childcare on the way!   No, I think he'd stopped by then, and was going to come clean. 

You are right! I have rewatched the episode and John is indeed just looking for Mrs. Hudson in the scene, sending Mary ahead. 

So the only moment when he could actually cheat on Mary (and we were privy to it) was in that scene when he gets off the bus, writing the leaving message to the mysterious bus lady, only to meet her at the bus stop in the next moment. They smiled on each other then and something could happen then, or it could not.....
 


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January 2, 2017 10:59 pm  #31


Re: John´s cheating

I tend to think it did...


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January 2, 2017 11:01 pm  #32


Re: John´s cheating

NicoleCollard wrote:

I think John needs new excitement to feel alive. Remember one of the first things Sherlock told him ("And I said 'dangerous', and here you are"). John doesn't really want a quiet life. That's boring after all he had experienced and loved. He chose Sherlock (a high-functioning sociopath who resolves crimes) and Mary (a former spy and assassin). At first, when Sherlock "died" and he met Mary, I imagine that all that John wanted was calmness, getting over Sherlock's death (kind of a metaphore for their crazy life together). He told Sherlock back in 221B: he started dating Mary because she wasn't supposed to be dangerous. But Sherlock is back, so "nothing" really happened, John marries Mary and settles down... for a while. So this girl appears in the bus, looks at him flirtatiously and John can't resist the urge to get involved in another new and dangerous situation. Every time he texts or meets her, I'm sure he can feel the adrenaline running through his veins.

Plus I think John feels Sherlock and Mary ignore him. Right before he starts looking and smiling at the red-haired girl, he receives Sherlock's text: "Mary says it's ok", or something similar. John must be thinking: "Come on! Let me ask her, al least. Everything gets arranged behind my back". So I think he kind of rebels against Mary and Sherlock, maybe without even being conscious. And he was about to confess his cheating to Mary at the end of the episode, so what he really needed was attention and a real confrontation.

Besides, John's resentment against Mary due to her lies and shooting Sherlock could be playing and important part in his cheating. I think his love for Mary wears thin, actually. ("Is it too soon for a divorce?", was he joking or not?). He didn't know her for long before he proposed to her, so I think we can conclude that John kind of "used" Mary to get over Sherlock's death. In Spain, we use the proverb: "one nail drives out another" (which means you can or you try to replace a person with another one to forget them) and I think it's exactly what John tried to do.

Very good points, I think.
 


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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

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January 2, 2017 11:03 pm  #33


Re: John´s cheating

I think we have to accept that John was trying to replace Sherlock in  a way, though I think he genuinely loved Mary.
But I don't think Sherlock has anything to do with John's cheating.

Last edited by besleybean (January 2, 2017 11:04 pm)


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January 2, 2017 11:07 pm  #34


Re: John´s cheating

besleybean wrote:

I honestly don't even think he did it for revenge.
I think he was just an almost middle aged guy, looking for a bit of a confidence boost.

I meant revenge as an act of rebellion, really. Unconscious, maybe. And I think I'm quite desperate to find an explanation for John's behaviour. It seems to me so out of character. Violent, yes. Willing for danger, yes. But a cheater? Soldier John Watson? I don't think so. I didn't like the way they presented John in "The six Thatchers". Maybe because I had made him into a hero, ignoring Sherlock's advice.


Sherlock Holmes: I've disappointed you.
John Watson: That's good... that's a good deduction, yeah.
Sherlock Holmes: Don't make people into heroes, John. Heroes don't exist, and if they did, I wouldn't be one of them.
 

January 2, 2017 11:15 pm  #35


Re: John´s cheating

John´s cheating (however serious it was or wasn´t) seems shocking at first, but still, in comparison with the actions of his nearest friends, who were all involved in some dubious stuff, it is a very harmless, all too human mistake.... and he was prepared to confess it all to Mary.

Being slowly replaced by Mary (or a random baloon) on cases had to sting after a while, so I would understand that too.

What I don´t get on John was his very cruel treatment of Sherlock after Mary´s death, not his cheating as such. 


-----------------------------------

I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

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January 2, 2017 11:19 pm  #36


Re: John´s cheating

Er, John put the balloon there, not Sherlock!


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January 2, 2017 11:23 pm  #37


Re: John´s cheating

besleybean wrote:

Er, John put the balloon there, not Sherlock!

Yes, he did, but I believe he did it as a sort of protest, noticing he is being slowly made redundant....
 


-----------------------------------

I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

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     Thread Starter
 

January 2, 2017 11:25 pm  #38


Re: John´s cheating

nakahara wrote:

John´s cheating (however serious it was or wasn´t) seems shocking at first, but still, in comparison with the actions of his nearest friends, who were all involved in some dubious stuff, it is a very harmless, all too human mistake.... and he was prepared to confess it all to Mary.

Being slowly replaced by Mary (or a random baloon) on cases had to sting after a while, so I would understand that too.

What I don´t get on John was his very cruel treatment of Sherlock after Mary´s death, not his cheating as such. 

I totally agree. That's why I see an "unconscious" rebellious touch in his cheating. He's been displaced, specially by Sherlock. And maybe that's why he acts so violently towards him at the end. John has a lot of feelings inside: guilt, anger, jealousy, fear, sorrow... What a bomb!
 

Last edited by NicoleCollard (January 2, 2017 11:26 pm)


Sherlock Holmes: I've disappointed you.
John Watson: That's good... that's a good deduction, yeah.
Sherlock Holmes: Don't make people into heroes, John. Heroes don't exist, and if they did, I wouldn't be one of them.
 

January 3, 2017 8:28 am  #39


Re: John´s cheating

I can't honestly say I see the jealousy...only in that what some new fathers speak of: a feeling of being replaced by the baby.


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January 3, 2017 8:34 am  #40


Re: John´s cheating

Personally, whether or not it was a physical relation or not, I still consider it cheating. I have a pretty low tolerance for that. 

In my own experiences with cheating men, and trying to understand... the answer has often been "I don't know why". 

I think there's a bit of a 'thrill' about it... and we all know John needs the thrills. I don't think he can 'sit still' for long periods of time... and some men might not be made for domestic bliss. Maybe he needs attention; and felt that Rosie was stealing a bit of 'the spotlight' and the bus-lady was more than happy to give him that. 

But regardless, cheating is not okay. 


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