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January 2, 2017 3:15 pm  #1


John's anger towards Sherlock

I feel this warrant a topic of it's own, because this is the one major thing I can't get my head around. 

In all other instances throughout the series, I have had no trouble understand whenever John was frustrated and/or angry with Sherlock. I didn't even have a problem understanding his violence at the reunion.

But this I don't understand. I did believe something like this could happen - that John would blame Sherlock for the death of Mary or the baby, and that would lead to their enstrangement. But I had assumed that if that happened, John would have a bigger reason for his anger (based on misunderstanding or not) than what we got here.

You could say that Sherlock shouldn't have gone on with his deductive rant, provoking someone who is cornered and points at you with a gun. But John wasn't even there to see that. He only came running in several seconds after the shot was fired, so he knew absolutely nothing about the circumstances that lead to this. 

So why could he blame it all on Sherlock? Because of a vow? That makes zero sense to me. As a field doctor/soldier, John of all people should know that life doesn't work like that. It's not a fairytale where a vow is somehow a guarantee of anything. 

I do understand that in a moment of intense and shocking grief, people can say or do the craziest things. I really get that. But even after John got home and Molly came over, he still was so angry he wouldn't even want to see Sherlock anymore. 

I just don't get it. I don't understand what's going on.


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January 2, 2017 3:29 pm  #2


Re: John's anger towards Sherlock

I am upset by this myself, but I know that something will happen for them to see each other again and have some sort of reconciliation.  Sherlock Holmes and John Watson are meant to stay together.

I think this has to do with John's shock from losing his wife so suddenly and in such a way and his mourning.  Sherlock promised to keep him, Mary, and the baby safe, but he failed.  But that was because Mary wanted to protect Sherlock.  I think she saw what was happening and couldn't let him be shot again.  John was not counting on Mary having her own agenda of also protecting the people who matter to her, which include Sherlock (she couldn't let history repeat itself with Sherlock getting shot, or John losing Sherlock again). 

And I think there's a bit of hypocrisy on John's part, which can happen since people are contradictory.  John said to Mary that they should have discussed things together.  But John isn't willing to speak to Sherlock about what happened.  I know it's a bit different, but that's something I thought about. 

But at the same time, he doesn't want to completely cut himself off from Sherlock.  He did give Molly a note to give him, after all.  He may be putting up a front of not wanting to see him, but I think part of him doesn't want to completely break things off.


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January 2, 2017 3:39 pm  #3


Re: John's anger towards Sherlock

I am at sea when it comes to John´s behaviour here. The fact is, he personally sent Mary after Sherlock when receiving his text. As a former army man, he had to be aware he is putting her under risk, even though she was a superagent.

(Also, in TAB, his Victorian self didn´t want to put Mary into danger for exactly that reason. How come the Victorian John was aware of this, yet his modern self was not?)

Mary was a person able to scale skyscrapers, so better that able to look after herself. She was probably more capable than Sherlock to protect herself.... she was no frail flower.

So why blame the best friend for her death? http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/nerdy.png


It this the projection of John´s own guilt on Sherlock? May it be that John sent Mary to the aquarium alone so that he can meet with his new paramour in secret, unnoticed (or to even make love to her?)? Is that why he is feeling guilty and vents his anger on Sherlock?

Last edited by nakahara (January 2, 2017 3:41 pm)


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January 2, 2017 3:39 pm  #4


Re: John's anger towards Sherlock

I would've understood it better if John had been there the whole time so that he saw what really happened. It would than make sense if he had yelled something like "Why can you never shut up?" Not saying it would be right or Sherlock's fault, but that would've been a reaction I could understand.

But to be angry to the point of not wanting to see him because of the vow? I don't get that.


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January 2, 2017 3:43 pm  #5


Re: John's anger towards Sherlock

Yes, he doesn´t know what happened and doesn´t ask even. So why is he so sure Sherlock is responsible for Mary´s death?

And weirdly, no one seems to care to inform him about the truth. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/nerdy.png


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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

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January 2, 2017 3:49 pm  #6


Re: John's anger towards Sherlock

Yeah this doesn't make sense for me either, the woman was obviously connected to Mary's past and for all John knows she could have just shot at Mary and there was nothing anybody could have done about it.

The only thing I can think of (unless his actions are in some way part of some big plan to push Sherlock for some reason) is that John can't deal with both the pain of losing Mary and his guilt about his infidelity and about sending Mary there first at once so he is putting all of his guilt and anger at the situation onto the closet person to him, Sherlock. I think he will come to realise it was not Sherlock's fault.


                                                                                                                      

All lives end. All hearts are broken. Caring is not an advantage.

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January 2, 2017 3:50 pm  #7


Re: John's anger towards Sherlock

I agree with you entirely.


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January 2, 2017 3:54 pm  #8


Re: John's anger towards Sherlock

Lis wrote:

The only thing I can think of (unless his actions are in some way part of some big plan to push Sherlock for some reason) is that John can't deal with both the pain of losing Mary and his guilt about his infidelity and about sending Mary there first at once so he is putting all of his guilt and anger at the situation onto the closet person to him, Sherlock. I think he will come to realise it was not Sherlock's fault.

This does make sense in a way. The pain and guilt becomes too much and so he lashes out towards the one person who is the easiest target for him - Sherlock. That could be an understandable (although of course not right) action in a wild moment of shocking grief.

But I don't see why he would continue with that anger even when he got back home and had time to think things over a bit.

I am sure there will be a reconciliation. And this time, I hope John gives Sherlock a proper apology. 


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January 2, 2017 3:55 pm  #9


Re: John's anger towards Sherlock

Me, too, Vhanja!


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January 2, 2017 4:03 pm  #10


Re: John's anger towards Sherlock

I hope there is a proper apology, too.  And I think there is a combination of grief and guilt that's making him act this way, even though it's not right.


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January 2, 2017 4:09 pm  #11


Re: John's anger towards Sherlock

Yes! I definitely want to see an apology from John too.


                                                                                                                      

All lives end. All hearts are broken. Caring is not an advantage.

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January 2, 2017 4:13 pm  #12


Re: John's anger towards Sherlock

From the first trailer, we do see Sherlock and John together in the car, when Sherlock talks with Culverton Smith. I gather that is the second episode? So there will be some form of communication and working together(-ish?) next episode, at least.


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January 2, 2017 4:18 pm  #13


Re: John's anger towards Sherlock

Quite.


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January 2, 2017 4:22 pm  #14


Re: John's anger towards Sherlock

I think we forget sometimes that grief and perhaps a little bit of guilt for a flirtations/affair can make a person lash out no matter how illogical. We've seen previews and we know they'll be working together again so I am sure the friendship will mend once John gets over the initial shock and grief of losing his wife. We all have moments when we get a little irrational when hit by intense emotions I think. 

I think he's being very unfair to Sherlock but I understand why and I know it will work itself out. 

I'm more upset that John was cheating on Mary. Something I didn't expect from him but perhaps it's some pent up passive/aggressive issue about how she deceived him in the beginning. A lot of psychological issues going on here for everyone. 

 

January 2, 2017 4:23 pm  #15


Re: John's anger towards Sherlock

I can't imagine them not getting back to seeing one another until the last episode.

Last edited by Yitzock (January 2, 2017 4:23 pm)


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January 2, 2017 4:24 pm  #16


Re: John's anger towards Sherlock

Well they are both in the ep 2 trailer!


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January 2, 2017 4:27 pm  #17


Re: John's anger towards Sherlock

I think John, as lost in grief as he is, is a bit of an hypocrit there : blaming Sherlock because he didn't respect his vow while, at the same time, John didn't respect his wedding vows when he cheated on Mary...

Anyway, I sure hope there will be a reconciliation or a truce of sort in the next episode ! Sherlock Holmes without John Watson is not Sherlock Holmes !


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January 2, 2017 4:31 pm  #18


Re: John's anger towards Sherlock

It's irrational and unfair, but I think it's kind of tied to the Samarra story, and John's faith in Sherlock.   He'd already seen Sherlock go to extreme lengths to protect Mary, so believed he could keep her safe.   He believed him that the risk was abroad, where they went and she saw death (having a gun pointed at her).  Sherlock convinced her to come back to London, promising that she'd be safe, not realising that London was Samarra.  They almost misled us too, I think, with that exotic location.   Sherlock basically led her back to her death, after promising to protect her. 

I also think there's guilt there - guilt over bus stop lady, and guilt over sending Mary to meet Sherlock, when Sherlock had specifically asked for John to come, not Mary.  Although I don't know if John ever saw Mary's text. 

John didn't see Mary choosing to die, but I don't know if it changes things ... he might still have been angry that Sherlock put her in that position. 

I do think a lot of it comes down to extreme emotions when dealing with grief. 

 

January 2, 2017 4:32 pm  #19


Re: John's anger towards Sherlock

Yes, John apparently didn't see what happened (Sherlock provoking Norbury) but at this point, all that matters to him is that Mary is dead and that Sherlock didn't keep his promise to protect her. Of course, this is absurd, Sherlock is no super heroe and can't keep everybody safe just because he promised to, but John's immediate reaction is understandable.

​Then we don't know (or maybe i missed it) how much time has passed between Mary's death and the scene with Molly passing John's note to Sherlock. Maybe it's really soon after Mary's death, which would explain why John is still angry. He hasn't had enough time to give it second thoughts.

​It must be so difficult for him. History repeats itself. The two persons he loves most in the world are Sherlock and Mary (and Rosie too, now, well, I hope so!) and he saw them both dying in front of his eyes (yes, Sherlock was faking his death but John didn't know at the time), unable to do anything to save them (sure, there was nothing he could do, but he must have felt helpless nonetheless)

​He must feel guilty for having cheating on Mary (or at least, having thought about it) but also for having sent Mary to the Aquarium (after all, Sherlock asked HIM to come, not Mary!)

​He must be worried about Rosie. All the parenthood's weight falls on his shoulders and I know by experience it can be quite stressful (my son was only two and a half when my husband died and during the first couple of weeks after his death, I thought I would never be able to raise my son properly, to play both the mother and the father's parts etc...)

​And when you're grieving, you're quite unable to think positively for a while (you only think about the darkest things). So if I put myself in John's shoes for a second, out of grief and anger, I think I would blame Sherlock for all the misery in my life: he made John believe he was dead and let him grieve for three whole years (!!!), he practically roasted in a bonfire because some psychopath wanted to test Sherlock's priorities (and it's not like he hadn't been the target of another 'psychopath' earlier >> he was supposed to be shot if Sherlock hadn't jumped off St Bart's roof), he thought he was about to die in an underground explosion only to realise Sherlock had made a fool of him, Sherlock showed him that Mary was not the wife he thought she was (sure, it was the right thing to do, but sometimes, I wonder if John wouldn't have preferred not to know anything about it), AND Sherlock failed to protect Mary.

​If you think about all this, you would definitely believe that Sherlock is bad luck and that it's better for yourself (and for your daughter!) to stay away from him.

​But I'm pretty sure John will then give it second thoughts. That he'll be able to think of all the good things Sherlock has brought him, all the good times they had together, and all the things Sherlock has done to protect him and Mary, and that there will be a reconciliation... and this time, it will be John's turn to apologise...

 


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Just like old times...


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January 2, 2017 4:35 pm  #20


Re: John's anger towards Sherlock

I agree, Pops, on both your points.  Also, I forgot to mention before: I really like the picture in your signature!


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