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January 2, 2017 4:44 pm  #41


Re: Mary's death and final message

Me, too.


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January 2, 2017 4:52 pm  #42


Re: Mary's death and final message

It's funny that they talk about the way she died being so surprising.  I think because we talked about it for three years - I'm sure one of the possibilities that we kept coming back to was Mary taking a bullet to save Sherlock, John or the baby, so that wasn't exactly a surprise.  And it made sense to tell her story over the first episode, so the most natural course was for her to die at the end of TST.  

But I suppose for the majority of viewers, who watched HLV once, three years ago, and haven't thought about it since then, it would be a big surprise!
 

     Thread Starter
 

January 2, 2017 5:11 pm  #43


Re: Mary's death and final message

I'm also wondering if one of the reasons they decided to kill her off in the first episode was because of Martin and Amanda splitting up. In that way, they could minimize the amount of time they would have to act a couple when they recently just split up themselves. 


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January 2, 2017 5:23 pm  #44


Re: Mary's death and final message

Er, they didn't know about it.
Couldn't have done.
The split occurred 2 weeks before filming...that's why it was all even more harrowing and pertinent.


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January 2, 2017 5:24 pm  #45


Re: Mary's death and final message

Vhanja wrote:

I'm also wondering if one of the reasons they decided to kill her off in the first episode was because of Martin and Amanda splitting up. In that way, they could minimize the amount of time they would have to act a couple when they recently just split up themselves. 

I think they said in teh interviews that they had split up two weeks before the filming. It's not feasible to change the scripts on such short notice.
Besides, Martin and Amanda keep saying that they are still the best friends so I don't think they have terrible issues working together.


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January 2, 2017 5:57 pm  #46


Re: Mary's death and final message

Oh, yes, that is true. 


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January 2, 2017 7:05 pm  #47


Re: Mary's death and final message

Liberty wrote:

It's funny that they talk about the way she died being so surprising.  I think because we talked about it for three years - I'm sure one of the possibilities that we kept coming back to was Mary taking a bullet to save Sherlock, John or the baby, so that wasn't exactly a surprise.  And it made sense to tell her story over the first episode, so the most natural course was for her to die at the end of TST.  

But I suppose for the majority of viewers, who watched HLV once, three years ago, and haven't thought about it since then, it would be a big surprise!
 

 
This. The episode went almost as most in the fandom suspected. What was the huge twist 


"Man may not be degraded  to being a machine by being denied to be a ghost in the machine."
It's just transport. The virus in the hard drive . However impossible .Must be the truth.
 

January 2, 2017 11:10 pm  #48


Re: Mary's death and final message

About "go to hell", in the Czech dubbing version it was translated by the phrase with the same meaning as "f*** you, Sherlock", only not so vulgar. I'm not sure if they did the translation before or after watching all three episodes, but it's interesting.


- -  - –  – –  - - -  - - - -  -  - – -  - – - -  – – –  – - – -  – - –  -  – - -
Up, down, flying around, looping the loop and defying the ground.
They're all frightfully keen, those magnificent men in their flying machines!
 

January 2, 2017 11:11 pm  #49


Re: Mary's death and final message

It is, because I don't think that's a very good translation at all!


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January 2, 2017 11:16 pm  #50


Re: Mary's death and final message

Couldn't she be using an acronym? "Go to H.E.L.L., Sherlock"?
We know they're fond of acronyms in this show (H.O.U.N.D., A.G.R.A.)

Edit: By the way, they translated it literally into Spanish as well: "Vete al infierno, Sherlock".

Last edited by NicoleCollard (January 2, 2017 11:19 pm)


Sherlock Holmes: I've disappointed you.
John Watson: That's good... that's a good deduction, yeah.
Sherlock Holmes: Don't make people into heroes, John. Heroes don't exist, and if they did, I wouldn't be one of them.
 

January 2, 2017 11:17 pm  #51


Re: Mary's death and final message

Pav wrote:

About "go to hell", in the Czech dubbing version it was translated by the phrase with the same meaning as "f*** you, Sherlock", only not so vulgar. I'm not sure if they did the translation before or after watching all three episodes, but it's interesting.

Also, they translated Sherrinford as a place name, not a person´s name - but that was probably a mistake....
 


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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

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January 3, 2017 12:54 am  #52


Re: Mary's death and final message

My first impression from the "Go to hell" sentence was  : It will be difficult for you , Sherlock, but save John by leaving him alone. He is in danger because he is with you.

But who knows....
 

 

January 3, 2017 8:11 am  #53


Re: Mary's death and final message

nakahara wrote:

Pav wrote:

About "go to hell", in the Czech dubbing version it was translated by the phrase with the same meaning as "f*** you, Sherlock", only not so vulgar. I'm not sure if they did the translation before or after watching all three episodes, but it's interesting.

Also, they translated Sherrinford as a place name, not a person´s name - but that was probably a mistake....
 

I would suppose that they watched all episodes since they are closely connected. 

As for Sherrinford - I am still open to the idea that it is a place. This is exactly what Moftiss do with Canon - use elements and turn them into something else. We have assumed that 

the other one = sibling = Sherrinford

But we are never told that this is the case. "Put me through to Sherrinford" could indicate e.g. a mental institution, a secret agency, or a manor house. 


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

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January 3, 2017 8:37 am  #54


Re: Mary's death and final message

I liked the idea of Mary's death as a comment (one of the comments) to the story about Samarra and I like how it created a new tensions between Sherlock - John. In fact, if Mary had been killed in some other way (and we all know she HAD to be killed or to vanish from the show in some other way) it would left Sherlock  comforting devasted John crying on his shoulder. A bit no good.
But the scene of death was cheesy, IMO. I really hate it when people have just enough time to tell all the right and noble things before dying. And dear Mark Gatiss, please: why make her stating the obvious? "We are even now?". We really get it, without her saying so.

Also, I couldn't believe Martin's wooden acting in this scene especially comparing to his incredibly touching performance in TRF last scene.

 

January 3, 2017 8:45 am  #55


Re: Mary's death and final message

Wow.
Well with my experience on fan sites...some people don't appear to accept the obvious even when it is stated!
Plus, I think that was an incredibly difficult scene for Martin, for all kinds of reasons.
I agree it's not the best I've ever seen, but in the circumstances, I could accept it.
I didn't feel it was wooden, I just think it's incredibly difficult to mimic a dying animal, which is apparently what profound grief is like.


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January 3, 2017 9:25 am  #56


Re: Mary's death and final message

SusiGo wrote:

"Put me through to Sherrinford" could indicate e.g. a mental institution, a secret agency, or a manor house. 

 
I too thought about a manor - the burning one to be precise.


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January 3, 2017 9:34 am  #57


Re: Mary's death and final message

besleybean wrote:

Well with my experience on fan sites...some people don't appear to accept the obvious even when it is stated!

Lol, that's is true. But Sherlock never struck me as a show how is feeding to dumb viewers, quite the contrary, in fact, so I don't understand why they should start now. And really, a dying person giving a well-rounded speech before dying is very theatrical and cliché, altothough I think AA did quite a good job with it.

Plus, the problem with "Sherlock" is that many viewers tend to read its meanings according their own wishes and not according to the show itself - at least this is my impression after having read some comments and even official reviews of the episode.

 

 

January 3, 2017 10:08 am  #58


Re: Mary's death and final message

Part of the reason we have been thinking of Sherrinford as a person, is because the other names we were given were people (Thatcher, Smith, Sherrinford).   But it does sound like it could be something else in TST.  We'll see.

Interesting that the translation of Mary's words was along the line of eff off.  Because that has no way of being a message from Mary to do what's necessary to save John, whereas go to hell does. 

     Thread Starter
 

January 3, 2017 10:14 am  #59


Re: Mary's death and final message

And I think the latter is what was intended.
At the very least, in the English language:  'F-off' and 'Go to hell' can mean two completely different things.


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January 3, 2017 10:53 am  #60


Re: Mary's death and final message

besleybean wrote:

And I think the latter is what was intended.
At the very least, in the English language:  'F-off' and 'Go to hell' can mean two completely different things.

Like what?


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