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January 2, 2017 12:52 pm  #21


Re: Mary's death and final message

besleybean wrote:

So Mary hasn't yet redeemed herself in your eyes?
Any chance she could do it posthumously?

Well, I am with captain-liddy on this one:

http://captain-liddy.tumblr.com/post/155283146470/mary-is-literally-revealed-as-having-traveled-the

The scene of the shootout at the embassy probably should made me feel sorry for A.G.R.A. Instead, I felt sorry for people massacred during the process. And I hated how the director dishonestly never showed us the massacred victims in an effort to mask the repercussions of everybody´s actions.


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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

http://49.media.tumblr.com/eb0e156f55878fcd6f89dcf91ae89811/tumblr_o0eyyzrphE1spvwrzo2_1280.gif
 

January 2, 2017 1:04 pm  #22


Re: Mary's death and final message

The embassy massacre was very strange. Why did Mary pull the pin? It looks like the hand grenade detonated between AGRA and the civilians. What did she want to achive with that?!


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"The posh boy loves the dominatrix." http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/love.gif Context matters.
 

January 2, 2017 1:07 pm  #23


Re: Mary's death and final message

I do not think she has redeemed herself. In the Morocco scene she showed she knows perfectly well how to pull someone down to keep them out of danger. She did not even try to do this with Sherlock. She could have pushed him without taking the bullet. It was a cheesy and unnecessary solution if you ask me. But one that would serve to burn out Sherlock's heart. 

And what about that plane scene? I still do not understand what it means. Are we to believe she drugged the stewardess or knocked her out and changed clothes with her in a plane full of people? How crazy is this? I am sure we will not have seen the end of this all. 
 


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

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January 2, 2017 1:16 pm  #24


Re: Mary's death and final message

Yes, I was puzzled about the stewardess too.  I presumed she got the stewardess to take her to the toilet and got them changed there - although it would be quite a performance changing both sets of clothes.   I think this was partly just showing Mary's secret agent superpowers of deception.   And perhaps a reference to her being from the US in reality.   But it would probably have just been much similar to change identity when she got off the plane.  It would no doubt be easier to trace her from a drugged stewardess wearing her clothes than if she'd just disappeared.  But wouldn't make such a good scene!

     Thread Starter
 

January 2, 2017 1:23 pm  #25


Re: Mary's death and final message

But at least she didn't kill her and at least she only drugged Sherlock this time...hopefully she has learned.
Okay she had a rotten past life, but please remember the UK gov were quite happy to use people like that.: anyway she had tried to turn a new leaf.
Is she not even forgiven in death?
I myself couldn't live up to some of the standards that are set around here.
When has Sherlock atoned for executing CAM?


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January 2, 2017 1:24 pm  #26


Re: Mary's death and final message

Yes. I watched with quite a few people (22) Sad to say a lot of people groaned or were laughing when Mary died. All that talking as well . Urgh. It was an awful scene.


"Man may not be degraded  to being a machine by being denied to be a ghost in the machine."
It's just transport. The virus in the hard drive . However impossible .Must be the truth.
 

January 2, 2017 1:26 pm  #27


Re: Mary's death and final message

Some people seem very hard to me, and not even fair...
I was appalled when Sherlock shot CAM.


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January 2, 2017 1:35 pm  #28


Re: Mary's death and final message

I have to admit, I almost laughed when she jumped in front of the incredibly slow moving bullet, in the style of Benedict doing a photo-bomb.  It did seem such a cliche that I couldn't believe they were doing it!  But I found her death scene very moving. 

     Thread Starter
 

January 2, 2017 1:39 pm  #29


Re: Mary's death and final message

I found both her death and John's reaction to it very moving.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

January 2, 2017 1:49 pm  #30


Re: Mary's death and final message

John's animalistic moan was heartbreaking, I thought.

     Thread Starter
 

January 2, 2017 1:49 pm  #31


Re: Mary's death and final message

besleybean wrote:

I found both her death and John's reaction to it very moving.

I found her death very moving if slightly illogcal. Also cried buckets and buckets, but mostly because I knew Amanda and Marting had separated http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/errr.png

John's growling was sort of weird. I like it if I think of it as growling but the first association was with an oinking pig. Sorry Martin http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/embarrassed.png


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"The posh boy loves the dominatrix." http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/love.gif Context matters.
 

January 2, 2017 1:54 pm  #32


Re: Mary's death and final message

I found her death very moving as well. Right then I was too into it to notice the cliche part of it. Amanda impressed me with her acting, I cried from then on and throughout the episode, I think.


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"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings
http://i.imgur.com/NzWTIDd.png

Team Hudders!
 
 

January 2, 2017 1:58 pm  #33


Re: Mary's death and final message

It was also obvious , as well as incredibly corny and stinky cheese.
I did like the episode overall but the Mary death was cringe worthy. I think they were playing with the inevitability of Marys death as a parallel to the meeting death in the market story.
I did laugh when I watched it the second time.
As for being sad about AA she did once say something like she wanted to die in Martin's arms?


John growling .lol. More an elephant impression 

Last edited by Mothonthemantel (January 2, 2017 1:59 pm)


"Man may not be degraded  to being a machine by being denied to be a ghost in the machine."
It's just transport. The virus in the hard drive . However impossible .Must be the truth.
 

January 2, 2017 2:04 pm  #34


Re: Mary's death and final message

Mothonthemantel wrote:

John growling .lol. More an elephant impression

Well that would fit very well with all the elephants Arwel's been posting.
Full circle.
*nods*


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"The posh boy loves the dominatrix." http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/love.gif Context matters.
 

January 2, 2017 2:18 pm  #35


Re: Mary's death and final message

Quite so.


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January 2, 2017 2:29 pm  #36


Re: Mary's death and final message

SusiGo wrote:

And what about that plane scene? I still do not understand what it means. Are we to believe she drugged the stewardess or knocked her out and changed clothes with her in a plane full of people? How crazy is this? I am sure we will not have seen the end of this all. 
 

I agree with you on the stewardess scene.
If Mary changed her costume with that of the stewardess while still on the plane, the stewardess´ colleagues would notice the change immediatelly. The crew of the plane is small, there´s no way the three or four people it sustains of wouldn´t know that one of them was replaced.
If the replacement took place out of the plane already and the colleagues would find their missing colleague unconscious and tied up on the toilet for example - it would alert the police right away that one of the plane´s passangers is a dangerous person able of kidnap. And that would cause an outcry and maybe even a media coverage. 
So why was the replacement neccessary? If Mary just stepped out of the plane discreetly as the passanger and got lost immediatelly, no one would find out about it anyway... so why did she throw a light on herself with that unneccessary kidnap?
 

Last edited by nakahara (January 2, 2017 2:38 pm)


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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

http://49.media.tumblr.com/eb0e156f55878fcd6f89dcf91ae89811/tumblr_o0eyyzrphE1spvwrzo2_1280.gif
 

January 2, 2017 2:29 pm  #37


Re: Mary's death and final message

ewige wrote:

Mothonthemantel wrote:

John growling .lol. More an elephant impression

Well that would fit very well with all the elephants Arwel's been posting.
Full circle.
*nods*

LOL! http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/grin.png

 


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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

http://49.media.tumblr.com/eb0e156f55878fcd6f89dcf91ae89811/tumblr_o0eyyzrphE1spvwrzo2_1280.gif
 

January 2, 2017 2:30 pm  #38


Re: Mary's death and final message

Ah, the magic of a TV show!


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

January 2, 2017 4:11 pm  #39


Re: Mary's death and final message

Ben, Martin and Amanda commenting on Mary's death (haven't seen this on YouTube yet, so here is Facebook-link):

https://www.facebook.com/Sherlock.BBCW/videos/994967310603864/

Edit: And here it is on YouTube:



 

Last edited by Vhanja (January 2, 2017 4:43 pm)


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings
http://i.imgur.com/NzWTIDd.png

Team Hudders!
 
 

January 2, 2017 4:43 pm  #40


Re: Mary's death and final message

Just a note: I watched for this on my second viewing. The flight attendants on the plane were not wearing the same uniforms that Mary was when wearing pushing the wheel chair.  So apparently the switch did not happen on the plane but later in the airport. 

One other thought as I am still processing everything. I never expect, nor do I look for, a ton of reality from this show. "Magical" things happen that could never happen in real life that, for me, make it extremely entertaining TV.  No, Mary could never have had the time to leap in front of a real-life bullet once fired; but this was done slow motion and in my mind I think of her as having anticipated the shot and jumped just as the trigger was pulled. I guess we can blame the director if it didn't come off right but I'm perfectly fine with it.


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And I said "dangerous" and here you are.

You. It's always you. John Watson, you keep me right.

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