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January 1, 2017 11:51 pm  #1


Mary's death and final message

This is getting to me so much - that last little bit after the credits completely threw me!  And I'm starting a separate thread just for now, because I think this may actually be the cliffhanger.

I've watched "Go to hell, Sherlock" twice, and although Mary could be warning him, it feels sinister to me. Look at her face.

I posted on the "impressions" thread, that it's almost suspicious the way Mary ticks exactly all the right boxes to be redeemed.  It's perfect - throwing herself in front of the bullet to the heart, the apology, etc.  Too perfect.

She knew she was going to die imminently, because she had already made and sent the video when she went to the aquarium (unless somebody sent it for her, when they heard of her death - but she still knew she was going to die soon.  Maybe just the short life of assassins, but who knows).   And she wanted Sherlock to remember her that way.

All the Moriarty parallels - I might have to come back to this, but things had struck me before, in TAB.  But here - there was something at the beginning, that I can't remember, but mostly the very way of Mary sending a video after death, exactly like Moriarty, even with the title "Miss Me".  She could just be being playful, but ...

 

 

January 1, 2017 11:54 pm  #2


Re: Mary's death and final message

My immediate impresson was "You will have to go to hell and back to save John", so more of warning Sherlock how difficult and horrible this case will be than anything else.

Having that said, at this point, I'm open to anything. 

I have to say, though, I don't like how Mary and Sherlock keep talking and messaging each other without including John.


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January 2, 2017 12:06 am  #3


Re: Mary's death and final message

You could well be right.  The other thing the video reminded me of was Many Happy Returns, which wasn't at all sinister. 

Of course, Sherlock was in MHR... there's no way Mary could be alive.  Unless it's twins!  They did include a twins line again! 

There's also Amanda's words about Mary: dangerous, flawed heroine, which makes me think she'll stay redeemed.  But it does feel sinister to me. 

And on the possibly negative side, she says "Save John Watson" which was the skip code message that Magnussen sent her. 

Now on third watching, I can hear a little bit of a shake in her voice, as if she's just willing Sherlock to do his best to save John.  So I'm coming round to your idea.  It really threw me though, when I first heard it.  I was the same after watching HLV - I think I was so shocked that I believed Mary  had to have been trying to kill Sherlock.  And I feel the same this time because she told him to go to hell! 

It's still intriguing though - because why does she think it will be so difficult and dangerous to save John?  What does she know?

Last edited by Liberty (January 2, 2017 12:41 am)

     Thread Starter
 

January 2, 2017 5:50 am  #4


Re: Mary's death and final message

Again, there was noise so I missed so many fine details. But I'm in your boat Vhanja. I felt that 'go to hell' might have been out of context or a 'code' for something...

What is hell for Sherlock?

What if she said "Helen" (okay too far sorry.)


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January 2, 2017 7:49 am  #5


Re: Mary's death and final message

A question, especially for Vhanja: It seems there is a town called Hell in Norway. And Mary had been to Norway during her escape. Could this be a clue?
 


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

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January 2, 2017 8:37 am  #6


Re: Mary's death and final message

Could be, but the way she says doesn't seem to me as if she's giving him a location. 

     Thread Starter
 

January 2, 2017 10:12 am  #7


Re: Mary's death and final message

I think it's metaphorical.


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January 2, 2017 10:45 am  #8


Re: Mary's death and final message

I am glad that we only have to wait one week to find out. :-/


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January 2, 2017 11:10 am  #9


Re: Mary's death and final message

SusiGo wrote:

A question, especially for Vhanja: It seems there is a town called Hell in Norway. And Mary had been to Norway during her escape. Could this be a clue?
 

Yes, she went to Norway, that was so cool.

Hell is a small place in Norway, but it's sort of a very small, insignificant place that only attracts tourists because of it's name (people love to take pictures of themselves next to the town sign to say that they've "been to Hell"). 

So it is possible. However, I didn't get the impression she said it in a tone that implied a particular place. 


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January 2, 2017 11:16 am  #10


Re: Mary's death and final message

Just a short question: Isn't the threadtitel too spoilerish for to be seen by the entire board?
It's not a problem for me but maybe for people who haven't seen it yet it's quite too much of a giveaway?

When the video was played, I was afraid the entire time that she would admit that she was behind all the Moriarty-stuff, in fact, I was afraid her saying: 'And Sherlock: I was Moriarty', or something like that, and I don't want this to be. Actually, I don't want her to have any connection with him, if possible, but you're right, the entire thing seems rather sinister. And when they were following the dog to that slaughterhouse, Sherlock said something as in: 'it must be Moriarty' and it turned out that it was in fact about Mary instead, so... I really, really hope that it doesn't turn out the way I fear.
 


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January 2, 2017 11:18 am  #11


Re: Mary's death and final message

I think there was a general staff post that once the show had aired in the UK, it is canon for the board.


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January 2, 2017 11:28 am  #12


Re: Mary's death and final message

We didn't see this in TST did we so was it cut or will we being seeing more from Mary soon?

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January 2, 2017 11:29 am  #13


Re: Mary's death and final message

Was it just a promo shot?


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January 2, 2017 11:35 am  #14


Re: Mary's death and final message

I found the episode to be fairly amusing, but Mary´s death scene was very bizzare, to say the least.

The trope of "one person takes the bullet/blade for another and dies in the other´s arms" is a cliche that was already old and tired one hundred years ago. Here is an example from the year 1909, from the book "The Hollow Needle":

Shears had picked up his revolver with his left hand and was taking aim at him.
A shot—a cry of distress—Raymonde had flung herself between the two men, facing the Englishman. She staggered back, brought her hand to her neck, drew herself up, spun round on her heels and fell at Lupin's feet.
He threw himself upon her, took her in his arms and pressed her to him.
"Dead—" he said.


Here is an example of the trope used in the movie Metropolis, filmed in 1927 (around 5:00 in the first video and in the whole second video):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3P6eHpDnmO8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2lxortJBUc

And yet this overtired cliche is used here in an absolutely straight manner, Mark Gatiss didn´t attempt to at least tweak it a bit. Not a very creative approach, IMHO.

Also, before being shot, Mary had the time to look around and to decide to throw herself in front of Sherlock.

http://68.media.tumblr.com/ebc2db6d51a3f6de3380249892264fb4/tumblr_oj4jitB7jO1tquluuo3_400.gif


So does the bullet really travel in slo-mo here? Because the bullet would already be in Sherlock´s chest the moment she did the first movement in the gif.

The writers keep forgetting that John is an army doctor. He didn´t even attempt to stop her bleeding. (??) Compare this scene with the Bainbridge scene in TSOT and you will see the difference. Also, Lestrade is trained to give some help to the victims of the crimes too, but here he was only interested in the arrest of Norbury and left John to tend to Mary alone. 

Mary´s long speech before her demise is another very common cliche.

Also, what was the significance of sharks and the aquarium here? Would it make any difference if the shooting took place in the meadow somewhere and the surrounding animals were sheep instead of sharks? Probably not.

Also, because HLV established in this show that fatal shootings are insignificant, I was not sure if I should feel moved by Mary´s fate. I kept anticipating that this shooting will be declared surgery and that Mrs. Norbury will be declared Mary´s best friend at the end of an episode.... 

Last edited by nakahara (January 2, 2017 2:17 pm)


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January 2, 2017 11:38 am  #15


Re: Mary's death and final message

So Mary hasn't yet redeemed herself in your eyes?
Any chance she could do it posthumously?


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January 2, 2017 11:43 am  #16


Re: Mary's death and final message

I'm not sure I can change the thread title, but I think there are going to spoilers galore, in thread titles and other threads, after the episodes air.  I'll see if there's a way to change the top forum message (warning about setlock spoilers) to warning that there will be spoilers for all aired episodes.

     Thread Starter
 

January 2, 2017 11:55 am  #17


Re: Mary's death and final message

You can change it anytime but do we really have to? I think it will be difficult to distinguish between episodes by now and anyway - what does constitute a spoiler? I find it very difficult to decide. Anyone who does not wish to learn anything about future episodes should stay away until they have aired. 

And an another note: I would love "hell" to be real hell instead of a place. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/wink.png


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
 

January 2, 2017 12:29 pm  #18


Re: Mary's death and final message

Sherlock standing there looking at the bullet and Mary looking around and still having time to throw herself in front of him - yeah, that was very odd. Nobody can push a person out of the bullet's trajectory after the shot has been fired, not at such a close range, anyway.

Both Sherlock and John tried to stop the bleeding. Lestrade was useless, you are right. Mycroft at least called the ambulance after John had ordered him to.

The whole Mary business this ep gave me mixed feelings. While I am glad that it looks like Sherlock really loves her for John and she doesn't wish him ill, it's obvious that we are not done with Mary yet.


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January 2, 2017 12:31 pm  #19


Re: Mary's death and final message

SusiGo wrote:

And an another note: I would love "hell" to be real hell instead of a place. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/wink.png

Oh, I've totally forgotten to comment on that.
I hope the writers are sufficiently aware of the episodes being dubbed and broadcasted in another countries. There is no way to translate "hell" and make it later a not-translatable town. And it's been translated as, well, hell. Into Russian at least


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January 2, 2017 12:35 pm  #20


Re: Mary's death and final message

Well I don't believe in hell, so that couldn't work for me...


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