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May 20, 2016 10:58 am  #1


Benedict among 250 stars backing EU

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/19/british-cultural-heavyweights-sign-250-letter-backing-eu-benedict-cumberbatch-paloma-faith-?CMP=fb_gu

A German newspaper publicist tweeted recently "threaten with Brexit is like threaten with suicide" I think he put it straight!

Although a tiny part in me wants to see what happens if there really is a Brexit. (I guess it's called sensation seeking)


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Normal is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from!
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May 20, 2016 3:17 pm  #2


Re: Benedict among 250 stars backing EU

I love how Benedict always seems to be on the right side. 


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
 

May 20, 2016 3:45 pm  #3


Re: Benedict among 250 stars backing EU

I literally cheered when this was announced on BBC TV this morning!
I personally don't think he is always on the right side. he and I apparently disagree over the monarchy.
But politically we seem fairly in tune.


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May 20, 2016 6:32 pm  #4


Re: Benedict among 250 stars backing EU

SusiGo wrote:

I love how Benedict always seems to be on the right side. 

Uhm... that would mean that people who want out of the Eu are on the "wrong" side?
 


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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

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May 20, 2016 6:34 pm  #5


Re: Benedict among 250 stars backing EU

Well according to me and Benedict, yes.


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May 20, 2016 6:41 pm  #6


Re: Benedict among 250 stars backing EU

besleybean wrote:

Well according to me and Benedict, yes.

You are absolutely entitled to your political opinion. You are absolutely entitled to fight for your beliefs.

But labeling the people who do not share that opinion as "wrong"... not very democratic, I´d say.

Remeber that sentence ascribed to Voltaire?

‘I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it,’ 

Last edited by nakahara (May 20, 2016 6:42 pm)


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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

http://49.media.tumblr.com/eb0e156f55878fcd6f89dcf91ae89811/tumblr_o0eyyzrphE1spvwrzo2_1280.gif
 

May 20, 2016 6:44 pm  #7


Re: Benedict among 250 stars backing EU

Excuse me?  
I do defend to the death the right of others to their opinions.
My right to free speech allows me to say when I think others are wrong.
Plus, in a vote, you'd be a bit stupid to vote for what you thought was wrong.


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May 20, 2016 7:58 pm  #8


Re: Benedict among 250 stars backing EU

nakahara wrote:

Remeber that sentence ascribed to Voltaire?
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it," 

Great quote but not by Voltaire. It's from Evelyn Beatrice Hall who wrote books about Voltaire. In "Friends of Voltaire" she wrote that sentence to point out his beliefs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Friends_of_Voltaire
The phrase "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it", which was originally intended as a summary (by Hall) of Voltaire's attitude, was widely misread as a literal quotation from Voltaire.


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Normal is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from!
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May 20, 2016 8:00 pm  #9


Re: Benedict among 250 stars backing EU

Ivy wrote:

nakahara wrote:

Remeber that sentence ascribed to Voltaire?
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it," 

Great quote but not by Voltaire. It's from Evelyn Beatrice Hall who wrote books about Voltaire. In "Friends of Voltaire" she wrote that sentence to point out his beliefs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Friends_of_Voltaire
The phrase "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it", which was originally intended as a summary (by Hall) of Voltaire's attitude, was widely misread as a literal quotation from Voltaire.

Yes, that´s why I wrote "ascribed to Voltaire". http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/wink.png

 


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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

http://49.media.tumblr.com/eb0e156f55878fcd6f89dcf91ae89811/tumblr_o0eyyzrphE1spvwrzo2_1280.gif
 

May 20, 2016 8:07 pm  #10


Re: Benedict among 250 stars backing EU

but it isn't, therefore...http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/wink.png


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Normal is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from!
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May 20, 2016 8:09 pm  #11


Re: Benedict among 250 stars backing EU

besleybean wrote:

Excuse me?  
I do defend to the death the right of others to their opinions.
My right to free speech allows me to say when I think others are wrong.
Plus, in a vote, you'd be a bit stupid to vote for what you thought was wrong.

http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/wink.png

And that´s absolutely all right.

Personally, I think that the general idea of EU is very good and it had a good potential to make the continent stronger and to make it rid of wars between single states.
Still, I believe, it´s ripe for a major reform in its current, overly byrocratic form, because it no longer represent the wishes and interests of ordinary citisens, IMHO.
That´s why I would hesitate to describe myself as a "good side" even if I believe in the general idea of EU. I envy you how sure you are about your cause.
I also don´t quite believe in eternal state forms or federations. That´s why I find it a bit exaggerated to speak of a suicide if a state falls out of EU. There´s nothing eternal in politics, I´m afraid.
"Places change... and hearts grow old."


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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

http://49.media.tumblr.com/eb0e156f55878fcd6f89dcf91ae89811/tumblr_o0eyyzrphE1spvwrzo2_1280.gif
 

May 20, 2016 8:15 pm  #12


Re: Benedict among 250 stars backing EU

To be perfectly honest, what I always say with this issue is: I will vote 'in' and I have concerns about Brexit...but I wouldn't actually think it was the end of the world.
Incidentally: no nothing tends to be eternal, but we can have an opinion on which is the best stae of affairs and work for it.

Last edited by besleybean (May 20, 2016 8:17 pm)


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May 20, 2016 8:33 pm  #13


Re: Benedict among 250 stars backing EU

I'm not a 100% a fan of the EU, there are things that are good or rather some ideas are good. I personally wouldn't have needed the Euro among other things. In general I get the feeling people here in Germany (that I know of) couldn't care less about the Brexit, the thing is GB gets a special treatment, they get a lot concessions, so people are a bit pissed off by that anyway. Equality would be nice, since we're in this together.
The "suicide" thing was a comparison. Saying you mainly harm yourself with it or to use the wonderful idiom you're shooting yourself in the foot. I once saw a documentation about it, that made clear the whole thing is a bit naive (one politician even compared GB to Norway, I had to laugh out loud) and you can't turn back time.


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Normal is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from!
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May 20, 2016 8:38 pm  #14


Re: Benedict among 250 stars backing EU

See we don't have the Euro and I would have quite liked it!
The sad thing is, I think if the UK didn't have the concessions(and I agree they are unfair), then most Brits would want out...so maybe it does depend how much the rest of Europe wants us!
I can only add: for me, many of our good human rights rulings have come from Europe.
I certainly do not want to be cut off from Europe and left on these isles with a bloody Tory government.
It's bad enough being stuck in the UK with them!


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May 20, 2016 9:37 pm  #15


Re: Benedict among 250 stars backing EU

I read some of the article at the start of the topic earlier today, but I held back from making any comments. I don't know enough about how this works to say much. All I can say is that these artists' points of view sound like what I would support, but I know the EU has other problems that may or may not be compensated for by what it does to help the arts. However things turn out, I hope people can be at least somewhat happy with what it will mean for the UK. But then again, you pretty much can never please everybody.


http://orig11.deviantart.net/078e/f/2015/207/f/e/consulting_detective_2_by_sakuranakamura-d92vt40.pnghttp://orig08.deviantart.net/8f4e/f/2015/198/4/2/blogger_by_sakuranakamura-d91o4zv.png
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May 20, 2016 9:39 pm  #16


Re: Benedict among 250 stars backing EU

Yep, that's democracy and at least we are getting a vote.

I can't even be happy that Brexit would cause the demise of our Prime minister.
Because, he's going soon anyway and what we could get after him may be worse

Last edited by besleybean (May 20, 2016 9:43 pm)


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June 17, 2016 7:50 pm  #17


Re: Benedict among 250 stars backing EU

Ironically of course many Britons think that the UK doesn't have preferential treatment (I agree it does). Being in a democracy does not inhibit one from expressing the opinion that another person's views are wrong. That is what debate is all about. (And I won't even enter the debate about what really constitutes a democracy and whether we are actually in one.)


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Don't make people into heroes John. Heroes don't exist and if they did I wouldn't be one of them.
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June 24, 2016 7:56 am  #18


Re: Benedict among 250 stars backing EU

Well, sadly, it looks like we're out. 

 

June 24, 2016 8:10 am  #19


Re: Benedict among 250 stars backing EU

This is a sad day. And I fear inner turmoil for Britain since Scotland and Northern Ireland voted Remain. Seeing political campaigns exploiting people's justified and often unjustified fears is always a terrible thing. Which does not just go for the UK but also for the US, Germany, Austria, and many other countries. 


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
 

June 24, 2016 9:08 am  #20


Re: Benedict among 250 stars backing EU

I'm truly shocked. I think mainly on behalf of people who see Britain as welcoming, openminded, interested in things beside themselves.* I don't mind voting out for economical or social issues so much, but I don't see convincing arguments that concerning those issues, out will turn out better than in.
Also, reading statements of immigrant people who say they don't feel welcome anymore in their own country, makes me very sad. And yes, I think its their country, too.

I don't think it was a very political vote, I think it was emotional. Not sure that's the best way to approach such things.

I also think it's a bit scary that nobody seems to be sure what will happen next.

If anything, I realised how alien these nationalistic ideas feel to me, and most nationalist parties scare me. I also think that in the lead-up to this referendum, fears and political moves played an important role.

edited to clarify: *I refer to rightwing parties and opinions here, and scary offensive nationalist voices like they were heard in some of the campaigns. Of course I don't mean that everyone who voted out is a selfish unwelcoming nationalist. There can be many reasons for a no vote I'm sure. But tbh, I felt the brexit campaigns weren't very much based on argumentation.

Last edited by Whisky (June 24, 2016 9:28 am)


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