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November 15, 2015 5:04 pm  #1


London Spy

This is a new BBC series, written by Tom Rob Smith and starring Ben Whishaw, Jim Broadbent, Charlotte Rampling, Edward Holcroft and Mark Gatiss (so there is a Sherlock connection!). 

The first episode aired on Monday.  I felt it was quite slow-paced and thoughtul, which made a nice change from the higher energy of some thrillers.  In fact, it felt more like a love story for most of the episode, with the thriller aspect becoming more evident towards the (disturbing) end.  

The character of Alex seemed to have very strong similiarites to Gareth Williams, and the publicity had revealed that he dies in the first episode, so I spent the episode waiting for his inevitable end - I didn't expect to be quite so close to Gareth Williams though

.  I'm very keen to know what happens next and have some theories.  I especially loved Jim Broadbent, and of course Ben is always wonderful. 

Is anybody else watching? 

 

November 15, 2015 5:42 pm  #2


Re: London Spy

Me! I just wanted to open a thread for this, thank you. I watched the first episode and was thrilled. Beautiful acting and writing. Ben Whishaw and Jim Broadbent are excellent and I am looking forward very much to seeing Charlotte Rampling and Mark as well. 

P.S. Will have to read up about Gareth Williams, I had never heard of him before. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

November 15, 2015 6:50 pm  #3


Re: London Spy

Oh wow, if you haven't heard of Gareth Williams you will be shocked at the similarities!   Some details are different (he was a cyclist rather than a runner, etc.), but it's so uncomfortably close that I'm sure the writer must have used him as the basis for this story.  In fact, I'd say that just looking at the wikipedia link will give major spoilers for episode one. 

I don't know if everybody would know, but Alistair is really the same name as Alex(ander), just the Scottish version (although both are used in Scotland).  I wondered if that was significant, that Alex was giving Danny his true name, or a version of it. 

I know it's unlikely, but I'm hoping Alex has been set up to disappear and will return at the end - that it wasn't his body in the trunk.  Maybe I've been watching too much Sherlock! 

I can't watch the next episode on Monday, so I'm going to be in suspense until Tuesday.

     Thread Starter
 

November 15, 2015 7:18 pm  #4


Re: London Spy

Yes, the similarities are truly striking! I am glad I read it only know because I had a hunch at the end of episode 1 but did not expect all the details. 

I will record it tomorrow and watch it on Tuesday as well. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

November 15, 2015 10:17 pm  #5


Re: London Spy

Funny that you should post this topic now, since I just watched this today (I had to download an extension for my browser so I could watch BBC iPlayer, but it worked).  It was unusual.  I agree, it was slow-paced, but it picked up near the end so I'm curious what the tone and pacing will be like in the next episode.  Hopefully, I'll have time to watch the other episodes as they come.
I like Ben Whishaw and Jim Broadbent, that was basically my only draw (other than the fact that it's about a gay (or at least queer) spy and characters).  I actually thought they'd both be spies, or that Ben Whishaw was the spy, until I started watching it.  I didn't know very much about what I was getting into, lol. 
[Sidenote: This is the most I've talked at a show as I'm watching it than I have done in a long time, but I found myself making a lot of comments.  I don't know what about it made it ripe for reacting to in that way.]
I actually thought the dialogue for the first bit when the two of them meet and are introducing themselves to be really awkward and unnatural, but it got better later, sort of.  We'll see how things go as the episodes go on.  Ben Whishaw is an actor I like and he's good, but some of that awkwardly written dialogue, especially near the beginning, wasn't working for me.
We have no idea of the timeframe of their relationship, do we? It all seemed to progress quite quickly to me, perhaps a little too quickly, but then again sexual relationships in TV shows often seem that way for me, so maybe it's just an asexual thing to find that odd.  Or maybe because they had things to get through in one episode because the writer(s) wanted him to disappear by the end of episode 1 because of the rest of the story that's planned out, so it had to be shown in a short space of time.
While I bought Ben Whishaw's acting near the end, his shock at finding what he finds in the apartment and his testimony to the police, it was hard for me to buy much of a connection between him and "Alex" when they were together.  I don't think he acts it badly, but just the scenes of them together are so elliptical.  It feels like just when they're starting to have some chemistry, a real moment of connection, the scene ends and we cut to something else and have to start all over.  I felt like the real connection we're supposed to understand as being present is not actually shown to us, like we're supposed to someone feel it from what we're given.  to me it's not enough.  Or maybe it's the actor who plays "Alex" that's the problem for me, I'm not sure, since he didn't leave much of an impression on me.
I'm sure I must sound like I really hated this, but I didn't.  I just don't feel much of anything yet, despite it making me curious by the end of the episode about what will come next.



Clueing for looks.
 

November 15, 2015 10:24 pm  #6


Re: London Spy

I think it was mentioned at some point that they had been together for eight months. I think I know what you mean by elliptical. Is it really credible to be in a relationship this long and to know hardly anything about your partner? What is it that draws Danny to Alex? Not just physical attraction, I suppose, there is more but still. What I found really interesting was the relationship between Ben Whishaw and Jim Broadbent. 

And just as an aside. This quote from the Guardian, ‘It’s not a gay story. It’s about guys who happen to be gay’, reminds me of Mark's quote about Sherlock:  "I think it is a show about a detective, not a detective show." 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

November 15, 2015 11:21 pm  #7


Re: London Spy

Eight months.  I guess I just didn't remember that part.
I agree, the relationship between Whishaw and Broadbent's characters is interesting to me as well.  I hope it gets more development.  We have a bit of the story of how they met, but I hope we find out more about their past together.  It's not the kind of thing you see very often, friends with such an age gap.

I like that quote.  I think we are getting more shows like that, where gayness or queerness are not the sole defining characteristics of characters anymore.  We see different relationships, not just straight ones, and there are other aspects to those characters' storylines.



Clueing for looks.
 

November 16, 2015 6:09 am  #8


Re: London Spy

Seems like we finally get the representation the BBC report was talking about.. great! It sounds interesting, I'll certainly have a look at it.

 

November 16, 2015 6:37 am  #9


Re: London Spy

I am loving it.
Can't wait for ep 2 tonight.
Just love Ben.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

November 16, 2015 7:55 am  #10


Re: London Spy

Yes, being gay is definitely not the "point" here.  There's no evidence that Alex struggled with being gay - he seemed to have difficulty having a relationship with anyone.  I feel that we don't know completely how much that was down to his social isolation (from childhood on), worry about his solo sexual preferences or the fact that he was constantly keeping secrets. 

I was sure Danny would have been accepting of Alex's upstairs room.  Maybe he didn't tell him because he was embarrassed about it, or perhaps because he was trained to be supercareful about blackmail material, BUT the fact that he didn't tell him makes me wonder if the room was set up and had nothing to do with him.   However, the ropes, etc. were laid out just like Alex's clothes, so either it was his room, or whoever set it up had done their research. 

I did wonder if there was more to Scottie than he's letting it on - it's strange that he picked up on Alex being a spy, and I wondered if he was in the same line of work. I also wondered if either Danny or more likely Alex had been instructed to target the other ... but I don't think so. 

I actually believed in the love story part.  I could see what they saw in each other.  I didn't feel the sex was rushed into at all: in fact, with the slow pace it seemed to take them quite a while to even get to touching and kissing.  I believed (although I'm waiting to be proved wrong), that Alex was trying to share what he could.  Their relationship came across as sweet and genuine.   I think the reason Danny fell for Alex (apart from the obvious, attractiveness, etc. - he thought he was out of his league) was that he acted kindly towards him, seemed to really care.   It turns out that was the same reason Scottie fell for Danny (I agree about the relationship between those two, Susi!  I found it fascinating).

The bit that didn't quite ring true was Danny swallowing the whatever it was - what was it?   I thought it would have been easier to put it straight in the other end.   I wondered if Danny was used to hiding drugs and that's why he did it instinctively?   Did it mean that he knew more than he was letting on?   Or were we told more about the thing and I missed it?

     Thread Starter
 

November 16, 2015 7:57 am  #11


Re: London Spy

I watched the first episode live and liked it, I was told Mark is in episode 3 and

Ben Wishaw said in an interview that he and Mark had an orgy and now people on tumblr people are very excited


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Normal is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from!


 
 

November 16, 2015 7:58 am  #12


Re: London Spy

I think he's shrewd enough a guy to think the thing may be important...he'll check it out himself( or maybe with a trusted friend ) first.

Just saw your post, Ivy: hooray!

Last edited by besleybean (November 16, 2015 8:00 am)


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

November 16, 2015 3:48 pm  #13


Re: London Spy

Liberty wrote:

I was sure Danny would have been accepting of Alex's upstairs room.  Maybe he didn't tell him because he was embarrassed about it, or perhaps because he was trained to be supercareful about blackmail material, BUT the fact that he didn't tell him makes me wonder if the room was set up and had nothing to do with him.   However, the ropes, etc. were laid out just like Alex's clothes, so either it was his room, or whoever set it up had done their research. 

I did wonder if there was more to Scottie than he's letting it on - it's strange that he picked up on Alex being a spy, and I wondered if he was in the same line of work. I also wondered if either Danny or more likely Alex had been instructed to target the other ... but I don't think so. 

I actually believed in the love story part.  I could see what they saw in each other.  I didn't feel the sex was rushed into at all: in fact, with the slow pace it seemed to take them quite a while to even get to touching and kissing.  I believed (although I'm waiting to be proved wrong), that Alex was trying to share what he could.  Their relationship came across as sweet and genuine.   I think the reason Danny fell for Alex (apart from the obvious, attractiveness, etc. - he thought he was out of his league) was that he acted kindly towards him, seemed to really care.   It turns out that was the same reason Scottie fell for Danny (I agree about the relationship between those two, Susi!  I found it fascinating).

The bit that didn't quite ring true was Danny swallowing the whatever it was - what was it?   I thought it would have been easier to put it straight in the other end.   I wondered if Danny was used to hiding drugs and that's why he did it instinctively?   Did it mean that he knew more than he was letting on?   Or were we told more about the thing and I missed it?

I am also unsure about whether that room was set up for Danny to find or not.  I also found it curious that the lights in that room were left on, despite the fact that Danny couldn't get any other lights in there to turn on when he went in.  Obviously, you appreciate those lights hanging from the ceiling better if they are on, but the fact that the lights were not shut off in that room makes me wonder about what happened in there and the circumstances under which they happened.

I also was wondering if Scottie knew Alex but wasn't saying so.  There seemed to be some unspoken recognition there.  I also found that when Danny first went to meet Scottie, that the place looked a lot like where you might see police or secret service people going to work.  I have a suspicion he's seen Alex before.

And there's another thing that I'm curious about, the thing Danny swallowed.  I couldn't tell what it was.  When he swallowed it, it looked white, but when he was unwrapping it later (assuming it was the same object, as I'm pretty sure it is supposed to be), it was metal.  I don't know why Danny felt like it had some sort of significance, but you might be onto something with it being an instinct developed back when he used drugs.  Or maybe it's something significant that will be explained in flashback?

I'm starting to think there will be some flashbacks, since Alex's character seems to be dead and we haven't seen all of what he has shared with Danny, from how I've seen it.



Clueing for looks.
 

November 16, 2015 4:17 pm  #14


Re: London Spy

I had the same feeling about Scottie and Alex. Their meeting had a subtle undercurrent that made me suspicious. 

I agree about your last paragraphs. Swallowing something to hide it definitely is something drug addicts and/or dealers might do.

The whole upstairs room seemed somehow arranged and a bit artificial. On the other hand Alex' whole flat is very sterile and tidy, a strong contrast to Danny's flat, and it reflects their characters quite well. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

November 17, 2015 8:31 pm  #15


Re: London Spy

pic of the nexts weeks episode of London Spy



Mark looks hot in a leather jacket 


----------
Normal is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from!


 
 

November 17, 2015 8:35 pm  #16


Re: London Spy

Mark in leather, this is something new. 

I liked episode 2 very much. Still slow-paced and detailed, not your usual fast thriller. Much emphasis on character development, long conversations, close-ups showing all the emotions. Beautiful. 

The eery, cold atmosphere with Alex's "parents" and the following verbal duel with his true mother impressed me very much. 

 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

November 17, 2015 8:37 pm  #17


Re: London Spy

OMG. How can I wait til Monday?!
They both look fab
 


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

November 17, 2015 9:06 pm  #18


Re: London Spy

I think Episode 2 was even better than Episode 1.  I'm so glad that they've kept the pacing.  It really works for me.  I like the lighting and colours too.  It's lovely to watch.

We were right about Scottie being a spy (even if not currently)!   It takes one to know one .  And it looks like we were right to suspect the room had been set up!

Totally agree about the whole parents set-up Susi.  Charlotte Rampling was fantastic.  Can you imagine what it must have been like to have her character as a mother?  During that exchange, I was thinking "no, she's wrong, it was genuine", but thought it was wishful thinking on my part.  I was so glad when Danny saw through her.  It's funny how invested I feel in Danny and Alex's relationship, even though we only saw a little of it.  Danny seems almost TOO intuitive, but I find myself believing in him and caring about him a lot.

I didn't expect David Hayman!  Didn't know he was in it.  I thought that having a Scottish father was the clue that Alex was giving his "real" name to Danny, but it turned out that wasn't his father.  And then I wondered if the statue in the maze was of Alexander.  I loved that Alex had still given his true name to Danny, the one he wanted to be called and was called by somebody who loved him.   I love the way the romance aspect has been done in this story - unusual and touching. 

Oh, and Jim Broadbent's speech earlier was another standout moment. 

Yet another mystery object at the end!  And I liked all the crossword/maze/three monkeys metaphors.

Last edited by Liberty (November 17, 2015 9:38 pm)

     Thread Starter
 

November 21, 2015 9:08 pm  #19


Re: London Spy

You've touched on everything I liked about the episode Liberty.  While I'm not sure whether the pacing was as slow as the first episode or whether it was the same, I did find this one even more interesting.  I like how this show his filmed and they've found some interesting locations.

I was thinking the same thing about the end, another small mysterious object! Although we still don't really know what the other one is for either.  It's some sort of code, but what for?  
But again, I couldn't tell whether the object from the end of this episode was a pill or something small and made of metal.

I also thought the use of the song "Stand By Your Man" was interesting.  I guess that's what Danny is trying to do.



Clueing for looks.
 

November 21, 2015 9:10 pm  #20


Re: London Spy

Shucks I'm gonna miss Monday's episode, as I'm going out...must catch up!


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

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