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January 7, 2016 6:24 pm  #41


Re: Refugees

So you are refugees, too - in some way, at least 


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January 7, 2016 6:32 pm  #42


Re: Refugees

General Mod reminder:  We appreciate everyone trying to keep a calm head and respect each other's opinions.  Politics are dangerous ground anyway and this is a current hot button issue.  We can all have different ideas but ultimately we all came here with a shared passion and should be nice to each other.


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January 7, 2016 6:47 pm  #43


Re: Refugees

Oh I must have missed something, I think I've been nice!http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/worried.png


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January 7, 2016 7:03 pm  #44


Re: Refugees

Yes, besley, we've been nice! 


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... but there may be some new players now. It’s okay. The East Wind takes us all in the end.
 

January 7, 2016 7:03 pm  #45


Re: Refugees

Yay for us! http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/wink.png


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January 7, 2016 7:05 pm  #46


Re: Refugees

Right 


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... but there may be some new players now. It’s okay. The East Wind takes us all in the end.
 

January 7, 2016 7:57 pm  #47


Re: Refugees

Harriet, I am speaking from the perspective of someone who does something. From someone who has a good idea what is currently going on in the various help organisations. But there are things which is not a matter of helpers, they need to get solved by the politics, and even the energy of helpers is not without limit.

Naturally aren't all changes bad and scary. But we can't pretend that there is no bad and look the other way when we are confronted with bad. Sure, between 100 people who come is perhaps one criminal (that is not a fact, just an example). But that would mean that between one million people, you have 10,000 criminals.

Germany has a law again Nazi Symbols (and rightly so). But if people go on the street and try to pressure other people to live according to the Sharia, they actually get away with it. Germany has a law against forced marriage. But young girls who flee from their families to escape from a forced marriage have to hide from the wrath of said family, while they nearly never have to face any charges. Germany has just now recognized that a honour murder is a murder "aus niederen Beweggründen" - and I am still shocked that this was even a point of discussion.

We should take as many refugees as possible...we shouldn't have open house for everyone, though, because we simply can't take everyone who would come in this case. And we can't act as if there aren't any problems connected with immigration to this scale. Because if we don't recognise them and try to work against them now, Neu-Kölln won't be the exception but the rule. That can't be our goal, we need integration, not a parallel-society within our country.  

 

January 7, 2016 8:03 pm  #48


Re: Refugees

To be fair the latter point has all too often been the problem when dealing with large groups or refugees, or indeed immigrants all at once and in a rush...ghettoisation.
Possibly there's a fine line between creating a settled community(which I did see the 3 years I lived in Birmingham)
and creating boiling pots of poverty, desperation , despair etc...and then some more powerful groups even create some no go ares in parts of London.


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January 25, 2016 9:18 pm  #49


Re: Refugees

It's days like these I'm a little ashamed of my country... or rather, the people representing it. 


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January 25, 2016 9:19 pm  #50


Re: Refugees

Why, what's happened?


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January 25, 2016 9:29 pm  #51


Re: Refugees

I am not fully updated (mostly because anything political here lately has been given me massive headaches... )

But for a while it's been known there's a bill that refugees will get taken away jewelry before they can be given any form of help (to be 'fair' me being on benefits, if I owned valuables over a certain amount, sentimental value or not I would have been asked to sell it first). But, it looks terrible and shouldn't happen. And as many has said, taking away jewelry from refugees has some very sinister notes to what happened in Germany in the 40's... 

Today some of the politicians had to explain themselves in the EU parliament and apparently that ended on a very childish and snappy note from 'our' politicians. 

Last edited by This Is The Phantom Lady (January 25, 2016 9:59 pm)


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January 25, 2016 11:17 pm  #52


Re: Refugees

A discussion today reminded me of this thread today. It was about were we are born, which country, which town. It was so obvious to me that we don't choose. And that I could be the one living in a country less privileged, and that I could be the one who had to flee from war. I thought - I should feel humble, I am in no position to tell anyone where he or she should be allowed to live. (Maybe John Lennon was onto sth there...). No time to elaborate, I just wanted to drop that here... I don't think I will ever use the words "closing borders" or "limits". Even if I could see a need, it would just feel presumptuous to me.


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January 26, 2016 12:16 am  #53


Re: Refugees

Wise words Whisky.


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"Anyone who takes himself too seriously always runs the risk of looking ridiculous; anyone who can consistently laugh at himself does not".
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"Life is full of wonder, Love is never wrong."   Melissa Ethridge

I ship it harder than Mrs. Hudson.
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February 22, 2016 10:24 am  #54


Re: Refugees

We discussed yesterday how media tries to turn the mood in the country. It's like, at the beginning there were supportive and enthusiastic reports about volunteers and the warm welcoming of refugees and subtext was "yes we will be able to handle this, it will be good".
Since a while, media coverage seems to take on a sceptic, if not pessimstic, view, writing how things become too difficult, how volunteers won't stick around to help, how too many refugees will be problematic for the country... But it's not like there is proof for it. It's more like "it can't last". But why shouldn't it?
I really feel like "the media will turn, they always do".

Thoughts? Do you experience the same?
 


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February 22, 2016 12:11 pm  #55


Re: Refugees


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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

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February 22, 2016 11:27 pm  #56


Re: Refugees

I would say that much of the media in the UK was hostile from the get go.


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February 23, 2016 12:07 am  #57


Re: Refugees

@nakahara: yes. But to be honest, I'm not even going to pretend I understand what's really going on in Syria. I tend to believe the refugees themselves the most. politics and agendas can distort the facts. and it really helps to read more than one or two newspapers... which I try to do. And yet, media is the main source for information and our formed opinions.

@davina: and are they getting it right? I must confess, I'm not so well informed where england stands in the refugee question. or rather, I read the papers but that's not necessarily the same as the people's opinions on the street.

In Germany we are facing both sides of the mirror. On the one hand, people are incredibly supportive with the refugees. I'd dare say, the majority. And then we got the sceptical group, which I can live with - having doubts is not a bad thing itself. But then on the other hand there are the right-positioned people, and from there it's just a tiny step to racism, hate, and aggression. but this is a minority, it just echoes incredibly loud in this country i think.

But I think the media has brought so many positive stories till now, that they are kind of willing to go the other direction now... whatever reason they have. I don't think this negativity should cloud the optimism we had month ago. But there is also politics... it's like many politicians slowly loose nerves. Which in turn is having a big impact on public opinion... we are made to believe politicians don't really now what to do (which even might be true, for all I know)... but I personally don't see another possibilty than helping and being open minded... and I don't want to see one of the rich countries in the world close the gates to people in need.

It's like problems are catching up, and everybody seems to be unsure how to proceed.

I'm just curious how other countries deal with this, or if they experience it like this.

Last edited by Whisky (February 23, 2016 12:24 am)


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February 23, 2016 1:22 am  #58


Re: Refugees

It's so complicated, and because people only know so much and can be misinformed depending on where they get their information from...it's a headache.  What a time for Canada to have just got a new Prime Minister and the U.S. to have an election to have a new president.  I know there's always complicated problems, but right now there is certainly a lot going on.

Here in Canada, we have let in over ten thousand refugees, but their problems aren't over - they need places to live, but right now that's slow going so a lot of them are stuck in hotels with little money.  We need to slow down to help all these people.  There's a shortage of housing for them, and some have long waiting lists, and there's concern people won't be so happy to have a recently-arrived refugee take the spot they've been waiting for for a year or two.  It's complicated.  People are supportive, but there's just so many people who need help, it's going to take time to process them all.


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February 23, 2016 10:57 am  #59


Re: Refugees

Whisky wrote:

But I think the media has brought so many positive stories till now, that they are kind of willing to go the other direction now... whatever reason they have.

Can you give examples for stories that go "the other direction"? Is it "stories" or is it naming (possibly uncomfortable) facts?
 


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February 23, 2016 5:31 pm  #60


Re: Refugees

@solar: I don't mind the facts. What do you mean by stories?
Examples, I don't know. It's an impression. Which facts do you refer to?
I certainly don't mean that the media covers the happenings in Clausnitz and elsewhere, I'm glad they do.
I mean more like the fear the integration process won't be successfull. If I find an article the next days that fits to explain myself, I'll post it.
I'm usually confident with writing english but right now I'm struggling a bit to express myself well.

(Was ich meine, ist, dass lange Zeit die Herausforderungen unterschriben wurden mit: das schaffen wir schon. Und jetzt gibt es immer mehr Schlagzeilen, die fragen: schaffen wir das wirklich? Ich frage mich nur, ob dieser Umschwung von Fakten gestützt wird. Ich sehe nicht so richtig, was jetzt so anders ist als vor einem Jahr. Außer dass vielleicht die große Lösung für jede Problematik ausgeblieben ist - aber  das ist doch nicht wirklich überraschend. )


@Yitzock: here I also hear the strongest opinions from the people that are also in need of support. there is fear that they have to stand back because of the refugees. I cannot judge if this really happens. housing is indeed a problem.

Last edited by Whisky (February 23, 2016 5:36 pm)


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