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September 24, 2015 9:00 pm  #21


Re: Refugees

One of the most disturbing things about all this is the way it has really brought out the nasty side of some people. I've had to unfriend a few people on my Facebook and even some of my extended family have been saying some, well, wrong things. And I'm just like ><
These are people, just like any of us. Families with children. And it's a humanitarian crisis. It isn't about benefits or ripping off the system.
 


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September 25, 2015 6:33 pm  #22


Re: Refugees

Same here Boss. Some people seem to have lost their humanity and compassion. I find that deeply troubling and sad.   


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October 14, 2015 8:24 am  #23


Re: Refugees

And sadly desperate people fight amongst themselves, too.


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November 20, 2015 12:17 am  #24


Re: Refugees

This powerful ad is about a Sudanese refugee, I hope it's okay to post it in this thread.




Definitely a more positive view of refugees. I'm not sure if it can be applied to the current situation, but I think it's worth a watch.


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November 20, 2015 1:37 pm  #25


Re: Refugees

Sherlock Holmes wrote:

One of the most disturbing things about all this is the way it has really brought out the nasty side of some people. I've had to unfriend a few people on my Facebook and even some of my extended family have been saying some, well, wrong things. And I'm just like ><
These are people, just like any of us. Families with children. And it's a humanitarian crisis. It isn't about benefits or ripping off the system.
 

 
Same here.  Once again I am ashamed at the behavior of many of my countrymen.  Our congress has even voted to deny the refugees entry!  Although I think/hope, it will not pass all the way through.

It's the hypocrisy that really gets me.  Most of the people ranting about the refugees being terrorists are hard core Christian conservatives who seem to have forgotten the actual teachings of Christ.


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November 20, 2015 5:18 pm  #26


Re: Refugees

And that they are of immigrant stock?


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November 21, 2015 10:11 am  #27


Re: Refugees

All but the Native Americans- the few remaining.... Some Americans seem keen to return to Isolationism. To me it seems rather like people who come to a party (sometimes as gatecrashers) and exit a few days later  for their cosy homes, leaving behind all the debris and damage for others to deal with. 


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January 7, 2016 1:39 pm  #28


Re: Refugees

The main problem I see currently is that between the ones who want to close the borders and those who would take everyone, the middle stays unheard. Fact is, there is still room in Germany, but not if the number of refugees arriving stays the same. Fact is also that the number of people who aren't actual refugees is way too high. First we had to reject the people from the Kosovo, now we suddenly have to deal with people from Morocco and Algeria. Not even half of the people who come to Germany get asylum in the end...but in the meantime, they tie up resources. We really can't afford that on the long run. There are too many who misuse the system in hope of a better life.
Another concern is the cultural difference. That is something which HAS to be discussed. The debate about what happened in Cologne shows what the problem is. The left is way too concerned with pointing out that there is no proof that the attackers were refugees, the right feels that their fears have been confirmed. And to be honest here: For once, the right has a point. Not by acting as if every refugee is a potential criminal, but weather those men were recent refugees or not, they have a migration background and they brought a kind of crime to Germany which didn't exist this way beforehand. Instead of saying that not all migrants are this way, we have to address the fact that there has been a considerable number of migrants which misused their right to be in Germany in one of the worst ways possible. Fact is, that we have criminal organisations within the country which do consists mainly of migrants - but whenever a member of said organisations is caught, it is put down as a "minor offense" and he is allowed back at the street. This can't continue. And the "Antänzer" trick shouldn't be treated as simple theft from the get go. Whoever is caught doing this one should be treated like a serial molester.

 

January 7, 2016 1:54 pm  #29


Re: Refugees

Fact is that many people feel entitled to spread their opinions as facts.


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January 7, 2016 2:20 pm  #30


Re: Refugees

Right, that is exactly what I love, instead of discussing something, the other one is shut up by attacking him on a personal basis instead of attacking the argument itself.

Let's see what I called a fact...I said that Germany won't be able to cope if the stream stays the same. You don't believe me? Ask Sweden. I am not for "Obergrenzen", this has to be solved otherwise, but we can't allow to let this situation go on, we need to get a grip on it somehow.
I said that the number of people who aren't actual refugees is too high. This is based on the number of accepted Asylum seekers in 2014 and the first careful numbers which were given just now for 2015. Those are official numbers. Are you honestly trying to tell me that it doesn't tie up resources when more than half of the people requesting Asyl are denied...and usually not within a reasonable time-frame, but after a year or more?
And the last fact is what the police says - even the officials aren't denying this. The police of cologne has admitted that they are already investigating such groups.
Nothing I said is from sort of hysterical right-wing paper, it is all based on official data or from articles from the serious press.

I say it again, we have a problem and we need a solution for this problem, not just for our sake, but also for the sake of the refugees. They can't be stuck permanently in legal limbo because our government isn't able to keep up with the applications, and they have just as much a right to be safe here as everyone else. And they will be the ones who will eventually stay in front of closed doors if we don't manage to communicate that poverty is no reason for asylum.

 

January 7, 2016 2:38 pm  #31


Re: Refugees

What you call fact are your evaluation of a complex situation. You can't tell what the future will be like nor if any number is too high or too low - that's your idea.
Sentences like " You don't believe me?" "Are you honestly trying to tell me that ... " do actually sound slightly hysterical to me, but that's perhaps just my own problem.


Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.   Independent OSAJ Affiliate

... but there may be some new players now. It’s okay. The East Wind takes us all in the end.
 

January 7, 2016 3:00 pm  #32


Re: Refugees

We have a steady trend. This trend has a cause, mainly the war and the overall poverty in certain countries. As long as those causes exists, there is no reason to believe that the trend will stop - and mind you, this trend includes people dying on the sea in their desperation to reach Europe. Therefore we either need to remove the cause for the trend - which won't be possible at least not on a short term basis - or we need to reshape the situation. Ignoring the trend will only lead into catastrophe - in fact, ignoring the refugees was what largely caused the current situation.

And, as you just have shown, there is an unwillingness to actually discuss the problems and look for solutions, because it is easier to either hate or explain the problems away. This is the kind of thinking which will have dire consequences.

 

January 7, 2016 3:32 pm  #33


Re: Refugees

There are lots of people who actually do something and help and listen and work for integration.
In a less flustered state.


Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.   Independent OSAJ Affiliate

... but there may be some new players now. It’s okay. The East Wind takes us all in the end.
 

January 7, 2016 5:40 pm  #34


Re: Refugees

Glad to see you being so positive about things.
UK media were showing a few German scare stories over the weekend.


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January 7, 2016 5:55 pm  #35


Re: Refugees

I know - unfortunately in the UK media often seem to picture Germany as bad example and jump on each story, mixing up things then, and so on. While I'm in fact proud of my country. Our constitution grants every person the right to apply for asylum and the right for their story to be heard. At the moment we are a shelter for people in big distress.
And as a country, Germany is regarded wealthy and especially open-minded enough to make people want to built a future for them here. Another thing we could be proud of, in comparison to other places in the world.
And lots of people spend a lot of time volunteering and helping. Often for the first time in their life.
Often old people remember their own stories being a migrant coming to western Germany. And talk about how they felt being rejected then or warm welcomed. Interesting stories that tell us of a time when even more refugees were on their search of a new home after WW2.
So while there are indeed big challenges, it's not just bad and scary.

Last edited by Harriet (January 7, 2016 6:01 pm)


Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.   Independent OSAJ Affiliate

... but there may be some new players now. It’s okay. The East Wind takes us all in the end.
 

January 7, 2016 6:00 pm  #36


Re: Refugees

Well our UK gov is just a disaster, so I'm not entirely surprised at the attitudes they perpetuate.
The situation is better in Scotland, I feel.


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January 7, 2016 6:05 pm  #37


Re: Refugees

Yes, I heard that about Scotland, too. More empathy and generosity than in England. And less UKIP, right?


Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.   Independent OSAJ Affiliate

... but there may be some new players now. It’s okay. The East Wind takes us all in the end.
 

January 7, 2016 6:07 pm  #38


Re: Refugees

God no...we hardly have any Tories even!


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January 7, 2016 6:11 pm  #39


Re: Refugees

Long live the Scots! 


Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.   Independent OSAJ Affiliate

... but there may be some new players now. It’s okay. The East Wind takes us all in the end.
 

January 7, 2016 6:18 pm  #40


Re: Refugees

That's why we live here.
We moved here in 1990, to get as far from Margaret Thatcher as we could...she resigned soon afterwards!


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